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Re: [orca-list] Ubuntu 11.10 & Gnome

That's true, but I didn't see any of that in Bill's post. In fact, I
thought he was rather positive concerning Unity.

I've read quite a few flames of Unity on the web, and I'm frequently
quite shocked at how many people flame Unity with no more reason than
it's "dumbed down" or "it's different" or "I've heard it isn't any
good." I enjoy reading the thought out feedback from someone who has
actually used Unity and provided some constructive criticism, even if it
isn't always positive. Unity won't improve without that constructive
criticism.

Besides if you based your opinion on whether something was flamed on the
INTERNET or not, you'd never change anything. I think Gnome 3 has been
flamed, every version of Windows and MS Office I can think of, ditto for
every version of JAWS and so on. It's a lot easier to have an opinion
and tare something down than it is to actually put some thought into
something and provide some constructive feedback that will actually make
something better.

As we've seen with Gnome 3, Unity and Windows 8, the desktop is going to
change and get more tablet friendly. IMHO, I think this will be good in
the long run. Apple, Google and others have made great strides in making
tablet friendly OS's and MS and Linux can take advantage of what they've
learned and discovered over the years. I also think it'll be great when
my tablet OS and my desktop OS behave similarly and I can seamlessly
move apps from one device to another. We can tilt at the windmills of
change or we can roll our sleeves up and make sure these new desktops
are accessible. I don't know which desktop I'll end up using, but I'll
be glad knowing I have multiple and accessible options. I'm sure I'll
have my preferences, but I'm not going to look down on others or other
desktops because people have different tastes and preferences than I do.

On 04/01/12 22:13, Andy B wrote:

Do a google search on unity and Ubuntu... there is enough flaming going on
about unity to feed the US army...

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list-bounces gnome org [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On
Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 10:52 PM
To: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Ubuntu 11.10 & Gnome

What do you mean? I don't see any reason in Bill's email to hate Ubuntu.

Do you mean that Unity is the reason most people who hate Ubuntu hate it?
Given that Ubuntu is still the most popular Linux desktop, I don't think
most people hate it.

On 04/01/12 21:22, Andy B wrote:

This is why most people hate Ubuntu...

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Cox [mailto:waywardgeek gmail com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 10:10 PM
To: Andy B
Cc: Glenn; orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Ubuntu 11.10 & Gnome

On the login screen, you can choose your default desktop.  Just choose 
"Unity 2D".  The Vinux guys naturally think "Yes! Get rid of that slow 
3-D crud!"  The shocking thing is that this version of the desktop 
isn't even GTK based.  It's using Qt and the new qt-at-spi thingy, I 
think.  I read about the rational, and it seems Canonical is very 
interested in ARM based devices, and Qt is already there, so Unity 2D 
based on Qt may be how Ubuntu gets on ARM tablets quickly.

This whole thing is super risky.  Chances are high that Ubuntu will 
once again drop a software project, and any work we've done to improve 
Unity's accessibility will be wasted.  However, I've not had any luck 
getting improvements into the Gnome 2 desktop, nor has anyone else 
I've known in the community, so I figure my work has better odds of 
making a difference in Unity.  I'm also very interested in seeing how Qt

a11y compares to GTK.

Orca expanding to support Qt is pretty huge.

Bill

On 1/4/12, Andy B <sonfire11 gmail com> wrote:

How do you get the QT version of unity?

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list-bounces gnome org 
[mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org]
On Behalf Of Bill Cox
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 9:42 PM
To: Glenn
Cc: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Ubuntu 11.10 & Gnome

The default Unity Desktop is based on Gnome 3, so all Ubuntu is 
replacing is the Gnome 3 Shell.  I haven't played around with the 
Gnome 3

Shell yet.

Does anyone here know it's current a11y status?
The version I'm using when in Ubuntu Oneiric right now is the Unity 
2D version, based on Qt, rather than GTK.  It's a bit more accessible 
currently than the GTK based Unity, and quite a bit faster.  The 
panel icons talk, which is my favorite enhancement over the Gnome 2 
Shell so far, though I also like that I hit the super key, type a 
couple letters and hit enter, and I'm running an app.  Common 
applications I launch with super+number.  I find this much easier 
than navigating menus by keyboard.  It took a while to get used to 
hitting F10 to get to the top panel, though.  I require use of the 
Compiz magnifier.  Can compiz be used with the Gnome 3 Shell?  I'd 
read that it does not work with either Gnome 3 Shell or Unity, but 
the article was wrong about Unity.  I've noticed some lag in Unity 
lately due I think to the switch to D-Bus with at-spi2, but it's not 
that bad, and hopefully the D-Bus latency can be reduced.  Other 
features I like in Unity are due to being low vision, rather than 
blind.  This desktop looks like it wants to run on touch tablets, so 
it's assuming a 10" screen, and therefore eliminates a ton of 
clutter.  For guys with great vision, Unity will look rather plain.  
The top panel has the active application's

menus, the system menu, and notification tray.

Everything else disappears, leaving almost all of the screen free for 
use by the application.  This is pretty nice for magnifier users on

laptops.


If anyone can give a summary of the Gnome 3 Shell a11y, I'd very much 
appreciate it.  I read there's a guy named Benjamen doing a lot of 
a11y related code in the GTK core.  Are there any a11y upgrades in 
the Gnome 3 Shell over Gnome 2 Shell?

Thanks,
Bill

On 12/30/11, Glenn <GlennErvin cableone net> wrote:

Hi All,
I was wondering if anyone is planning on building a new version of 
Ubuntu with Gnome instead of Unity, so we can get the benefit of the

latest Ubuntu.

I'd rather not have to do that myself.
Glenn

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out 
how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out 
how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp




_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at 
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out 
how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp



--
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain gmail com
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to
help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp



-- 
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain gmail com
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