Re: [orca-list] links list

[Mike Reiser <mikereiser08 gmail com>]

VoiceOver somehow does this using a dom in safari, does orca handle
web content similarly?  I ask because NVDA uses the virtual buffer
method, but I know voiceover doesn't. And they are able to do an
elements list. Thanks,
Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 6, 2012, at 11:11 PM, Alex Midence <alex midence gmail com> wrote:

> Hi, Jason,
>
> Please see my response inline:
>
>
>
> On 12/6/12, Jason White <jason jasonjgw net> wrote:
> > Christopher Chaltain <chaltain gmail com> wrote:
> > > Yeah, I would never be so pessimistic to say something would never
> > > happen. I can't speak to this particular feature myself though, since I
> > > never used it in Windows and have never felt like I missed it, but I'm
> > > probably missing out on something.
> >
> > This feature has been supported for ever in browsers such as Lynx, but I
> > never
> > found it particularly useful in that context and I don't miss it in
> > Firefox.
>
>
> Really?  I didn't know that.  I'll have to look into it.
>
> > On the other hand, I use searching heavily (including the ' key which
> > searches
> > only for links).
>
> Searching takes a lot of typing.  Tell me, how would you handle this:
>
> Your job is to assist people with their purchase of tickets to events
> and movies around the country.  You have a web-based application in
> front of you with its pages organized in dropdowns and tabs across the
> top of your screen.  They read: Venues, Events, accommodations,
> transactions, and call history.
>
> Joe Snuffy is on your phone wanting to know if you have any rock
> concerts coming to town the night of the 15th which are within a
> radius of 12 miles from the Pish Posh Hotel which, incidentally, he'd
> like you to check to see if discounts are available to those coming to
> town for the convention he's attending during the day of this concert.
>  Oh, and would you happen to know if there's an exhibit worth
> checking out at the Art Museum for his kids to attend while he goes to
> his rock concert?  He wants to purchase with his mastercard and he
> wants it billed to the same address he used with your company last
> time he was in town when he spoke to that nice girl who helped him out
> then.
>
> You have 4.5 minutes to answer his call, get what he wants, fill his
> order and document the call.  You have to negotiate this screen
> quickly and efficiently.  Each dropdown only shows you what is under
> it when your mouse pointer overs over it and will change its options
> based on the caller's > account number and the city he is visiting.
> Each drop down has from 5 to 10 options beneath it.  Each screen these
> options brings up has over 40 to 50 links cross several hierarchical
> headings with special instructions dynamically inserted in between
> enclosed in divs and spans.
>
> I frankly could not imagine doing that without an elements list.  I
> teach customer service and have worked in call centers for the last
> fourteen years so, this is a very real scenario I'm outlining for you.
> In fact, I only wish  my system was so simple at work.  The people I
> teach have from 3 to 4 web-based applications they have to navigate
> through, each with its own interface and layout  and must keep their
> calls between five to seven minutes long and hold times down to a
> minimum.  Accuracy, professionalism and quality of service are crucial
> for them to keep their jobs.
>
>
>
> > It's also going to be hard to maintain lists of links when the underlying
> > Web
> > page is being modified by Javascript, a problem that only becomes worse as
> > the
> > Web becomes more dynamic.
>
> Lots of screen readers do this just fine.  In fact, the dynamic nature
> of some pages necessitates them.  My scenario above?  I locate the
> dropdown with my virtual pc cursor, I route my virtual mouse cursor to
> it, I bring up my links list and quicly arrow through the options it's
> pulled up.  If it's a screen or page I visit often, I type its first
> letter till I land on it.  This keeps my mouse pointer over the
> dropdown link while my links list does with the sighted person's eyes
> do and zooms in on the appropriate link to click.  This is with a
> jquery dropdown and with acordion-style dropdowns.
>
>
> > For the people who do find lists of links useful, is there another feature
> > that could be implemented which would address your needs just as
> > effectively,
> > or even more effectively, but which wouldn't involve creating a special
> > presentation of the page? For example, would navigating links by number (as
> > in
> > Lynx 2.8) help, or some improvement to the searching features of the
> > browser?
> I'd have to try it that way to tell you for sure.  That's my honest answer.
>
> Thanks for making it this far,
> Alex M
>
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