Re: [orca-list] Accessible email clients; really need an alternative to thunderbird

[Michael Whapples <mwhapples aim com>]

It must be something specific to my computers as many others seem to 
have no problem. However I get the same problem on two computers (both 
being 32-bit systems, one being pentium4 based and the other pentium-m 
based). I have no clue what hardware speakup could be affected by, but I 
know its not synth specific as the problem starts in the main speakup 
module.

Michael Whapples

On -10/01/37 20:59, Steve Holmes wrote:
> Sorry for not being Orca related here but I'm using the latest kernel
> on my Arch Linux box and speakup is humming along just fine.  I'm
> using it right now and also using emacspeak over in my emacs editting
> session.
>
> Unless you're have some hardware compatible issues with newer
> kernels.
>
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 07:54:00PM +0000, Michael Whapples wrote:
> > Regarding the speakup thing, normally speakup should run on any Linux system but recent kernels the modules 
> > just fail to load. Its possibly something to do with how ArchLinux configures/compiles the kernel but I don't 
> > know that. I may try compiling my own kernel if I have time I have nothing to do better with.
> >
> > If I had speakup access then the problem would be less, cone possibly would be enough, others have mentioned 
> > alpine which I probably could get on with as I found pine reasonable in the past.
> >
> > I probably wouldn't go with webmail, generally I feel inefficient and the multiple account thing would be a 
> > problem (well certainly much more effort).
> >
> > Michael Whapples
> > On 18 Nov 2011, at 19:06, Steve Holmes wrote:
> >
> > > I would suggest mutt anyway but you said you can't use speakup.
> > > That's really too bad.  I thought speakup worked on just about any
> > > linux machine.  I agree that Orca and mail clients is a bad
> > > combination lately.  I think with the gnome 3 implimentation this
> > > spring, accessibility has gone backwards rather than forwards.
> > > Numerous improvements have supposedly been made in some of the
> > > foundation classes like gtk... but yet for an end user, it seems like
> > > more stuff is broken now than before.
> > >
> > > Anyway, another mail solution, though not pretty, could be to use web
> > > based mail services like gmail as long as you donh't use the standard
> > > view.  But then you have to use the Firefox browser which many are
> > > having trouble with.  In some ways though, Firefox performs better
> > > than thunderbird in Linux now days.  This is surprising because older
> > > versions of Thunderbird actually worked pretty well and often better
> > > than the windows counterparts but now the windows version appears to
> > > work better than the current linux versions.  What is going on here
> > > anyhow?
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/18/11, Michael Whapples<mwhapples aim com>  wrote:
> > > > I wouldn't put too much hope on seamonkey being any better, its another
> > > > Mozilla based product using XUL like Thunderbird and many of the warts are
> > > > in layers like XUL which is common across Mozilla products.
> > > >
> > > > Michael Whapples
> > > > On 18 Nov 2011, at 16:59, Tami Kinney wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Michael,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am on a similar quest for similar reasons.
> > > > >
> > > > > I did read that Ubuntu would not be supporting Evolution (or something to
> > > > > that effect) starting with the Oneiric release, so...
> > > > >
> > > > > With the upgrade to Oneiric, Evolution has stopped talking to me. I've
> > > > > been using Thunderbird but have decided I just don't need the frustration!
> > > > > /smile/
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm downloading Seamonkey and mutt just to see what happens. I will keep
> > > > > the list posted as to how those work with Orca on Oneiric.
> > > > >
> > > > > If anyone else has discovered an e-mail client that works well for them,
> > > > > please tell us about it! /smile/
> > > > >
> > > > > Tami
> > > > >
> > > > > On 11/18/2011 03:06 AM, Michael Whapples wrote:
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > I know I have written about this before, but I never really found a
> > > > > > satisfactory alternative. So as a last try I will try and be very
> > > > > > specific in what I am looking for.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OK, as many will know I really am not happy with the quality of
> > > > > > accessibility in Thunderbird, Mozilla just don't seem to be able to deal
> > > > > > with the problems and accessibility requirements seem to be a second rate
> > > > > > citizen (justification: Some of the accessibility issues are so obvious
> > > > > > and critical to use, that should a non-disabled user be faced with such
> > > > > > issues they would never make a release of Mozilla products, an example
> > > > > > being Orca echoing the text being entered in edit fields, would
> > > > > > non-disabled users stand for not knowing what they typed, why should
> > > > > > we?). There are other quality issues I have with Thunderbird but we'll
> > > > > > leave those for now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now to the positive look on things, what alternatives are there?
> > > > > > Evolution normally is the obvious one. Yes I have used it back in the
> > > > > > past (back in the gnome 2.18 and 2.20 days. While I could use it then, to
> > > > > > me it always felt like its usability lay somewhere between difficult or
> > > > > > clumsy. Some of the specific issues were finding attachments, being able
> > > > > > to open individual messages in list digest messages as an attachment
> > > > > > (like I can in Outlook Express on windows or Thunderbird) so I can reply
> > > > > > to individual messages rather than the digest one and also evolution can
> > > > > > feel like its interface is just a bit cluttered as it has calender and
> > > > > > other features I do not tend to use (see below for what I really would
> > > > > > want from an email client). If anyone could point me to good
> > > > > > documentation on using evolution (particularly as an orca user and using
> > > > > > evolution from the keyboard, may be my problems with evolution could be
> > > > > > overcome as I might be able to use it more efficiently.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another alternative which has been suggested to me is balsa, but I never
> > > > > > really got to grips with that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know that another alternative might be to look at text based clients.
> > > > > > The only ones I really got on with were pine and cone. Anyway, I feel
> > > > > > text base clients may be off the cards as I feel Orca isn't great with
> > > > > > text based software. Speakup would be my preferred choice for screen
> > > > > > reader with text based software, however it just doesn't load on the
> > > > > > computers I would install Linux on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OK, here is what I am looking from the email client:
> > > > > > Accessible with Orca: As I noted speakup doesn't work on my Linux systems
> > > > > > so Orca is what I will be using, so in my opinion that rules out the text
> > > > > > based clients.
> > > > > > Simple interface, focused on what is wanted: I only really want it for
> > > > > > mail, things like calenders are just a waste of space to me. The main
> > > > > > places I use in the email client is the folder/account tree and the
> > > > > > message list. More than that in the main view is more than I want, I may
> > > > > > find search useful but I don't mind going to the menu for that.
> > > > > > Multiple account support: It should support more than one account, with
> > > > > > different outgoing servers for each account.
> > > > > > Ability to access the individual messages in a mail digest: I have most
> > > > > > of my list subscriptions set to digest (eg. that is how I have the orca
> > > > > > list set) but I have it set to mime for the format. This means that in
> > > > > > Outlook Express on windows and thunderbird on Linux I can access each
> > > > > > individual message sent to the list by viewing the attachments of the
> > > > > > main digest message. This works quite well to keep things tidy. May be
> > > > > > rules could help here and that I could receive separate messages and use
> > > > > > rules to separate them into folders, but unless that is done on the
> > > > > > server I need to set up those rules on every computer (undesirable
> > > > > > thought) and I am unsure whether I could set these rules on the server.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think that covers the main things. Any suggestions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Michael Whapples
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