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Re: [orca-list] Using Linux for everyday computing tasks and employment

Hi,

response in line.


Hi
There's a difference between characterizing Linux as a serious operating syst
em versus a seriously accessible platform. Linux itself is probably one of th
e most robust and stable operating systems you are likely to find today.


agreed.


However, and I know this is going to be bate for a flame war but I have to sa
y it, accessibility of the GUI leaves a lot to be desired. To be fair, most o
f this does not seem to be issues with Orca but rather issues further down in
 the stack and, to add to the complication, much of these problems are introd
uced by distribution maintainers. The gksu/gksudo problems are a glaring exam
ple of something that must be fixed. This has been an issue for years and yes
, the core issue has been dealt with in GNOME. But the problem is gksudo, and
 many distributions use it still and nothing is being done about either fixin
g it or replacing it. This is an issue that doesn't affect some distributions
, such as OpenSUSE or Archlinux if configured properly, but it's common enoug
h to be a problem. Again, it's not the fault of the Orca team or the GNOME te
am but it is a problem with the experience nonetheless and reflects badly upo
n the accessibility of the desktop in general. 


Maybe I'm not the normal user, but ask me if I care.  I think the best way to administer is at a shell, and 
any  screen reader works perfectly well with your choice of sudo or su. :-)


Another issue, and 
 this one *is* the fault of the GNOME team, was the move to Webkit for render
ing HTML. I understand why this was done and, in fact, I agree that it had to
 be done. However, this has left accessibility to these HTML-based applicatio
ns, such as yelp, out in the dust. I would've thought that, if accessibility 
were a real concern, this wouldn't have happened until there was at least som
e accessibility integrated into Webkit. Firefox does no good if the applicati
on, Ubuntu software center being another example, uses HTML rendering and thu
s Webkit now. There are a lot more areas this affects than it would seem at f
irst glance.


again maybe I'm not average, but 90% of what I  use gnome for for is FF so while this would be nice ....


I'm not trying to flame, but I have to face facts. Apple, a new player in the
 accessibility game who came into it long after GNOME's accessibility effort 
was started, had a more solid experience in their first release of VoiceOver 
than Orca does now. It's the little things that matter, not the whiz-bang scr
een reader functions but the details of the experience. NVDA for Windows has 
surpassed Orca as well.


NVDA is nice, but it means suffering with windows.
The bigest problem I see with linux accessibility  is seg faults in espeak_synth drive are sd_espeak in 
speech dispatcher.  (I've started working on the speech dispatcher problem and will hopefully  have a 
rewritten sd_espaek soon)


For the Orca devs and gnome accessibility devs, I have a suggestion for you. 
I hope you'll take this as constructive. I understand many of your primary de
v machines are running Opensolaris, who's version of GNOME actually has much 
of these problems eliminated. I think it would be good, for everyone involved
 with GNOME accessibility, to use some of the more popular Linux variants and
 get a feel for some of the problems here. Essentially, get the point of view
 from a less-controlled environment, an environment that more people are goin
g to end up using than Opensolaris at this point. I wish it were the other wa
y around, with Opensolaris being the platform of choice for most of us, but t
hat's not the case and some of the non-SUN versions of GNOME can seriously de
tract from the accessibility experience.


It would also be good if you tried to fix some of the problems in your distro of choice.


Ok, I'm rambling now and will stop. *Shrugs* let the sparks fly, I guess, I k
now I'm about to get burned alive as a heretic or something. :)



Trev
 

On Jan 14, 2010, at 09:01, John G. Heim wrote:


I don't think you really want to characterize linux as an operating system 

that isn't "serious or is only for hobbiests". Not unless you want to start a
 flame war. Obviously, linux is a serious operating system. More serious than
 Windows, in fact since it is a much better server platform than Windows. I t
hink its safe to say that most applications that you would consider "serious"
, like mail servers, web servers, ffile servers, are better done with linux t
han Windows. Whereas, uses that you'd consider less serious, like gaming, are
 probably more commonly done in Windows.


My job is supporting linux servers for mail, web, file sharing, and databas

es. So obviously, I use linux for my job. But I use a Windows machine as my p
rimary workstation. I also support about 100 end users who have linux as thei
r desktop machines. So linux can be used as a primary workstation if you're s
ighted. I'm not sure if its practical for a blind person to use it. It could 
be. I haven't made that leap yet.


Really, what I think you're asking is if orca is good enough so that a blin

d person can use linux every day in their job. I don't know about that. I onl
y know that I haven't manage it yet. The hold up for me is primarily mail. I 
haven't been able to become efficient enough in evolution to swtich to linux/
orca full time.


Anyway, the point is that linux isn't just for hobbiests. Quite the contrar

y. For me, linux is anything but a hobby. When I'm ggoofing around, I'm using
 Windows, not the other way around.


----- Original Message ----- From: "James & Nash" <james austin1984 googlem

ail.com>

To: <orca-list gnome org>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:48 AM
Subject: [orca-list] Using Linux for everyday computing tasks and employmen

t




Hi list,

I'm just curious, but how many of you use Orca and your favoured Linux dis

tro for everyday use and also for employment purposes?


The reason I am asking is because for me I think that Linux would be more 

of a hobby than a serious computing platform at least for the moment.

Thanks
TC
James
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_______________________________________________
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Orca-list gnome org
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Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/

ats-2.html

The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQues

tions/NetiquetteGuidelines

Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


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_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
Orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/at
s-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuesti
ons/NetiquetteGuidelines
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
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