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Re: [orca-list] Using Linux for everyday computing tasks and employment

Hi
There's a difference between characterizing Linux as a serious operating system versus a seriously accessible 
platform. Linux itself is probably one of the most robust and stable operating systems you are likely to find 
today.
However, and I know this is going to be bate for a flame war but I have to say it, accessibility of the GUI 
leaves a lot to be desired. To be fair, most of this does not seem to be issues with Orca but rather issues 
further down in the stack and, to add to the complication, much of these problems are introduced by 
distribution maintainers. The gksu/gksudo problems are a glaring example of something that must be fixed. 
This has been an issue for years and yes, the core issue has been dealt with in GNOME. But the problem is 
gksudo, and many distributions use it still and nothing is being done about either fixing it or replacing it. 
This is an issue that doesn't affect some distributions, such as OpenSUSE or Archlinux if configured 
properly, but it's common enough to be a problem. Again, it's not the fault of the Orca team or the GNOME 
team but it is a problem with the experience nonetheless and reflects badly upon the accessibility of the 
desktop in general. Another issue, and this one *is* the fault of the GNOME team, was the move to Webkit for 
rendering HTML. I understand why this was done and, in fact, I agree that it had to be done. However, this 
has left accessibility to these HTML-based applications, such as yelp, out in the dust. I would've thought 
that, if accessibility were a real concern, this wouldn't have happened until there was at least some 
accessibility integrated into Webkit. Firefox does no good if the application, Ubuntu software center being 
another example, uses HTML rendering and thus Webkit now. There are a lot more areas this affects than it 
would seem at first glance.
I'm not trying to flame, but I have to face facts. Apple, a new player in the accessibility game who came 
into it long after GNOME's accessibility effort was started, had a more solid experience in their first 
release of VoiceOver than Orca does now. It's the little things that matter, not the whiz-bang screen reader 
functions but the details of the experience. NVDA for Windows has surpassed Orca as well.
For the Orca devs and gnome accessibility devs, I have a suggestion for you. I hope you'll take this as 
constructive. I understand many of your primary dev machines are running Opensolaris, who's version of GNOME 
actually has much of these problems eliminated. I think it would be good, for everyone involved with GNOME 
accessibility, to use some of the more popular Linux variants and get a feel for some of the problems here. 
Essentially, get the point of view from a less-controlled environment, an environment that more people are 
going to end up using than Opensolaris at this point. I wish it were the other way around, with Opensolaris 
being the platform of choice for most of us, but that's not the case and some of the non-SUN versions of 
GNOME can seriously detract from the accessibility experience.
Ok, I'm rambling now and will stop. *Shrugs* let the sparks fly, I guess, I know I'm about to get burned 
alive as a heretic or something. :)



On Jan 14, 2010, at 09:01, John G. Heim wrote:


I don't think you really want to characterize linux as an operating system that isn't "serious or is only 
for hobbiests". Not unless you want to start a flame war. Obviously, linux is a serious operating system. 
More serious than Windows, in fact since it is a much better server platform than Windows. I think its safe 
to say that most applications that you would consider "serious", like mail servers, web servers, ffile 
servers, are better done with linux than Windows. Whereas, uses that you'd consider less serious, like 
gaming, are probably more commonly done in Windows.

My job is supporting linux servers for mail, web, file sharing, and databases. So obviously, I use linux 
for my job. But I use a Windows machine as my primary workstation. I also support about 100 end users who 
have linux as their desktop machines. So linux can be used as a primary workstation if you're sighted. I'm 
not sure if its practical for a blind person to use it. It could be. I haven't made that leap yet.

Really, what I think you're asking is if orca is good enough so that a blind person can use linux every day 
in their job. I don't know about that. I only know that I haven't manage it yet. The hold up for me is 
primarily mail. I haven't been able to become efficient enough in evolution to swtich to linux/orca full 
time.

Anyway, the point is that linux isn't just for hobbiests. Quite the contrary. For me, linux is anything but 
a hobby. When I'm ggoofing around, I'm using Windows, not the other way around.

----- Original Message ----- From: "James & Nash" <james austin1984 googlemail com>
To: <orca-list gnome org>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:48 AM
Subject: [orca-list] Using Linux for everyday computing tasks and employment



Hi list,

I'm just curious, but how many of you use Orca and your favoured Linux distro for everyday use and also 
for employment purposes?

The reason I am asking is because for me I think that Linux would be more of a hobby than a serious 
computing platform at least for the moment.
Thanks
TC
James
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Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca.
The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Netiquette Guidelines are at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/NetiquetteGuidelines
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


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