Re: [orca-list] Vinux 1.3 Released!

["Bob Tinney" <tinneyb charter net>]

Hi Anthony and everyone

I recognize that there are many approaches to solving a problem.  We'll have 
to agree to disagree on this one. When a group becomes a large enough market 
to warrant special attention, the mainstream will recognize them.  In the 
case of PDAs and cell phones, the m. sites were developed for smaller 
screens.  These same m. sites work pretty well with screen readers.  This is 
particularly true with a site llike facebook.

I still believe that the best way forward is to try to influence mainstream 
software rather then segrigating ourselves.
Bob Tinney, K8LR, tinneyb charter net
Skype, bobtinn
Life is full of challenges, that's what makes it interesting!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anthony Sales" <tony sales rncb ac uk>
To: "Bob Tinney" <tinneyb charter net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: [orca-list] Vinux 1.3 Released!


Hi Bob,

I don't think I am going to convince you that what I believe is right, or
visa versa. So let's just agree to disagree on this. We are all interested 
in
the same thing ultimately, that is open source accessibility. There are many
different ways to achieve this, and they are all valid in my eyes. This is
the beauty of Linux and open-source software, it allows for specialist
distributions and different solutions. A flame war or in-fighting on these
mailing lists is just counter productive. So I sincerely hope that a
mainstream fully accessible easy to use distribution is released soon, but 
in
the meantime I am going to keep producing Vinux, because I don't believe it
is damaging the cause of universal accessibility, but in fact highlighting
the issue, because the fact that I and many other people want a customised
version of Ubuntu demonstrates that they have just made it accessible or 
easy
enough yet.

Best wishes,

drbongo

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list-bounces gnome org [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On
Behalf Of Bob Tinney
Sent: 24 February 2009 15:33
To: orca-list
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Vinux 1.3 Released!

I can remember when web sites were all coming out with text only pages to
make their sites more accessible to blind and visually impaired persons.
There was only one problem with these text only sites, they were not updated
as quickly as the mainstream pages and that is why I stopped using these
special pages.  We can all ask for special exceptions and special releases,
but anything special just removes us further from the mainstream, and it
allows the mainstream to ignore us even more then they do now.

Bob Tinney, K8LR, tinneyb charter net
Life is full of challenges, that's what makes it interesting!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Sales" <tony sales rncb ac uk>
To: "Bob Tinney" <tinneyb charter net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 5:37 AM
Subject: RE: [orca-list] Vinux 1.3 Released!


Hi Bob,

I completely understand your point of view, and there was a big debate along
the same lines when I first released Vinux. I agree that the best solution
would be that mainstream distros were accessible out of the box, and not
just
to experienced Linux users - but to people who have never even used Linux
before. I work in a specialist college for the blind in the UK and hardly
any
of our learners have even heard of Linux let alone use it. In order for
visually impaired learners who have only ever used windows to try Linux they
need to have to be able to pop the disk in and everything just works out of
the box. This is the kind of user Vinux is aimed at, it is just a nice easy
way of experiencing linux, without having to know which keystrokes to press
and terminal commands etc to get the accessibility working. Once they have
got their feet wet I assume they will move onto other distros that better
suit their needs. At the moment I do not believe that any of the major (or
minor) distros meet this specification - boot it and have speech,
magnification and Braille support out of the box, with speech support for
all
of the admin apps - but with a nice GUI inteface for their sighted friends
and relatives to use! The day there is such a distro I will wave the white
flag and recommend that people use that, which will save me loads of time
and
effort. I think after years of waiting for a truly easy to use accessible
Linux distro out of the box I just lost patience and decided to do something
about it. The reality is that now some of our students are able to use linux
independantly, and although for many of them they will only see it as a
curiosity and go back to Windows I hope that one or two or the the more
competant IT users will start to use both operating systems or god forbid
switch to Linux completely.

Good Luck with the mainstream distro accessibility thing, be sure to let us
know when it is ready ;)

drbongo

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list-bounces gnome org [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On
Behalf Of Bob Tinney
Sent: 23 February 2009 22:17
To: orca-list
Subject: [orca-list] Vinux 1.3 Released!

Hi,

I've remained silent on this issue, but I feel compelled to reply to this
announcement.   I have real problems with a special install of an operating
system for the blind.  If we, the blind and visually impaired, insist on
segregating ourselves, that lets all software and system developers and
companies off the accessibility hook.  Ubuntu, Solaris, and the Gnome
project
have been working hard to improve accessibility.  Things are not perfect,
but
I can't see how the landscape can be made better by putting a fence around
ourselves.

That is why I am going to continue to work with mainstream operating system
releases.  It is the only way to move forward on a par with everyone else!

Sincerely,

Bob Tinney, K8LR, tinneyb charter net
Skype, bobtinn
Life is full of challenges, that's what makes it interesting!

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