Re: [orca-list] Vinux 1.3 Released!

["al Sten-Clanton" <Albert E Sten_Clanton verizon net>]

Greetings!

I am ardently anti-segregationist.  I think your points are fair.  That
said, I'm inclined to view Vinux as a specialized tool to ease a blind
person's way into the world of Linux that we share with our sighted peers,
like a cane or guide dog, not the path to a "blind ghetto."  I suppose
somebody could make a similar argument against putting out the
Speakup-modified version of Fedora, but without that it probably would have
taken a good deal longer for me to begin working with Linux.  Vinux is not a
different operating system, but a specialized spin on an existing and
popular one.

I know this is only a theory and a hope right now, but if Vinux does make
its own accessibility improvements, other "mainstream" distributions of
Linux could then incorporate them;  if they don't have to do the work of
creating the features, they might not mind at all.  I doubt that the reverse
is true, though, that eliminating specially accessible distros would cause
the others to rush in and fill the accessibility voide.

I tried Vinux briefly last night.  I was pleased that I could get speech
output without having to hit the right keys and the right time while booting
up.  Alluding to Hermann's comments in another message, I think sighted
users would find that feature distracting.  Of course, they shouldn't have
to be babbled at:  if they could kick speech out, the way we have to kick in
in with other distros, then even that distraction is gone.  Unless Vinux can
give me the kind of access I get with Speakup and a hardware synthesizer, I
doubt I'll install it.  (I know nothing about the screen reader mentioned on
the site.) If it does give that kind of access, though, I might install it,
and my first impression is that it may be a good choice for a blind person
who doesn't care about that.

I hope this is useful.

Al
-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list-bounces gnome org [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On
Behalf Of Bob Tinney
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:33 AM
To: orca-list
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Vinux 1.3 Released!

I can remember when web sites were all coming out with text only pages to
make their sites more accessible to blind and visually impaired persons. 
There was only one problem with these text only sites, they were not updated
as quickly as the mainstream pages and that is why I stopped using these
special pages.  We can all ask for special exceptions and special releases,
but anything special just removes us further from the mainstream, and it
allows the mainstream to ignore us even more then they do now.

Bob Tinney, K8LR, tinneyb charter net
Life is full of challenges, that's what makes it interesting!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Sales" <tony sales rncb ac uk>
To: "Bob Tinney" <tinneyb charter net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 5:37 AM
Subject: RE: [orca-list] Vinux 1.3 Released!


Hi Bob,

I completely understand your point of view, and there was a big debate along
the same lines when I first released Vinux. I agree that the best solution
would be that mainstream distros were accessible out of the box, and not 
just
to experienced Linux users - but to people who have never even used Linux
before. I work in a specialist college for the blind in the UK and hardly 
any
of our learners have even heard of Linux let alone use it. In order for
visually impaired learners who have only ever used windows to try Linux they
need to have to be able to pop the disk in and everything just works out of
the box. This is the kind of user Vinux is aimed at, it is just a nice easy
way of experiencing linux, without having to know which keystrokes to press
and terminal commands etc to get the accessibility working. Once they have
got their feet wet I assume they will move onto other distros that better
suit their needs. At the moment I do not believe that any of the major (or
minor) distros meet this specification - boot it and have speech,
magnification and Braille support out of the box, with speech support for 
all
of the admin apps - but with a nice GUI inteface for their sighted friends
and relatives to use! The day there is such a distro I will wave the white
flag and recommend that people use that, which will save me loads of time 
and
effort. I think after years of waiting for a truly easy to use accessible
Linux distro out of the box I just lost patience and decided to do something
about it. The reality is that now some of our students are able to use linux
independantly, and although for many of them they will only see it as a
curiosity and go back to Windows I hope that one or two or the the more
competant IT users will start to use both operating systems or god forbid
switch to Linux completely.

Good Luck with the mainstream distro accessibility thing, be sure to let us
know when it is ready ;)

drbongo

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list-bounces gnome org [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On
Behalf Of Bob Tinney
Sent: 23 February 2009 22:17
To: orca-list
Subject: [orca-list] Vinux 1.3 Released!

Hi,

I've remained silent on this issue, but I feel compelled to reply to this
announcement.   I have real problems with a special install of an operating
system for the blind.  If we, the blind and visually impaired, insist on
segregating ourselves, that lets all software and system developers and
companies off the accessibility hook.  Ubuntu, Solaris, and the Gnome 
project
have been working hard to improve accessibility.  Things are not perfect, 
but
I can't see how the landscape can be made better by putting a fence around
ourselves.

That is why I am going to continue to work with mainstream operating system
releases.  It is the only way to move forward on a par with everyone else!

Sincerely,

Bob Tinney, K8LR, tinneyb charter net
Skype, bobtinn
Life is full of challenges, that's what makes it interesting!

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