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Re: [orca-list] contacting skype users

I have to agree with some of that. If it is possible to create another
GUI (which previously I thought it wasn't), then that's the way I think
it should be done and would support that work (in what way I could).
That solution at least would be making skype accessible to other ATs as
well so would have a greater value. I still would hope that skype may
return some thanks for it by improving things at their end should it be
needed to achieve greater accessibility on linux.

The QT and Gnome accessible API is a topic with which I would prefer not
to get involved too much. I think there's simply not enough agreement
between KDE and gnome and enough people to come forward to help. I don't
foresee that issue being resolved in the short term unless an outsider
does something and that probably would not be considered official by
both.

I also make some question of what the motivation of Sun micro might be.
what I will say here is not necessarily true, just my thoughts, and so
should be taken in a suitable way. I wonder whether to an extent if Orca
is being done to make solaris accessible out of the box, like the Mac
is, and that at the moment solaris uses gnome by default, but should a
different desktop manager be used then sun may move to do a different
screen reader. I would hope that should Sun ever drop support for Orca
that we would have a sufficiently strong community to keep the project
going, unlike LSR which I believe is fairly dead now.

From
Michael Whapples
On Thu, 2008-03-13 at 00:37 -0600, John Greer wrote:

Strange because it is possible to make your own gui for it in Visual Studio 
on the Windows side with accessible buttons etc. so I can't quite see why no 
one can do it for GTK.  Also why has no one on the Gnome side of things 
tried to create a bridge to QT4 apps?  Is it because it is not a part of 
Gnome?  Skype's gui is in fact programmed in QT4 which does have an 
accessibility structure in it.  Is the reason why gnome accessibility not 
working with KDE 4 apps simply because they want only their gnome 
accessibility toolkit to be the standard?  That sounds a bit like Microsoft 
like monopoly moves to me, the difference is it is Gnome and Sun doing it 
now instead of Microsoft.  I guess no one is actually doing it for the good 
of the community anymore it is all to beat Microsoft.  Oh well, I guess even 
the open source movement is not immune to selfishness and greed.  Apple was 
able to make their screen reader Voice over which is unix based, work with 
it.  It can even work with narrator in Windows now, why not linux?  When 
there is a screen reader for KDE it will begin to work with KDE desktop, why 
not Gnome?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples aim com>
To: "orca-list" <orca-list gnome org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [orca-list] contacting skype users



Hello,
I don't see this as open source or not for whether to support software
(skype in this case), my problem is to do with choice. I feel that the
decissions which have been made by those responsible for skype limits
choice, and it being closed source is just one of those (they could make
it accessible and maintain it as closed source). I will go through some
of these decissions now. If one of these had been taken differently more
could be done and it might be worth supporting.

The protocol isn't open: by doing this they haven't allowed any other
clients to be made by other developers.
They don't have anyway for other systems such as SIP to connect: this
combined with the first point means that if I want to communicate with
someone who is using skype I must use the skype client.
On linux skype is not accessible via at-spi (which I believe is becoming
the standard AT API) or any other accessibility API widely used on
linux: this means any solution which is made for orca isn't general to
other access technologies, so the effort put in will give very little
return value to accessibility, you will be purely linking only two
applications, so not just limiting me to one client I will be limited to
one screen reader!
Skype I believe is not maiking any efforts to make skype more accessible
on Linux: I understand that skype uses QT (I don't know whether version
3 or 4 which vary on quality of accessibility API (QT has its own
accessibility API, but this doesn't work with the gnome one and at-spi))
but as far as I know skype hasn't made any assistance with connecting
QT's accessibility API to at-spi or making skype accessibility
information available through other accessibility APIs such as the java
accessibility API (like open office does for those platforms where it
doesn't have a way to communicate to the specific platform accessibility
API).
Skype being closed source does not help with the above: as nobody other
than official skype developers can see the source code to make any
internal changes needed to make the skype client more accessible, we are
limited to what we can do to improve things.

Also are you aware that the list is set to reply to sender not to list?

Michael whapples
On Tue, 2008-03-11 at 14:57 -0600, John Greer wrote:

Not supporting Skype for the simple fact of it not being open source is 
just
silly.  Just my two cents.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples aim com>
To: "Michael Weaver" <michaelweaver1 btinternet com>
Cc: <orca-list gnome org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [orca-list] contacting skype users



Hello,
Firstly you're brave bringing this up considering what some say on this
topic. I will try and keep this balanced and factual.

There is a version of skype for Linux, but as it stands it isn't
accessible using at-spi. It might be possible to get some functionality
through custom scripts interacting with skype's public api, but this
isn't really a truly accessible solution as what functionality you get
will be specific to orca rather than any access technology using 
at-spi.

So if we proceedd with this as if scripts aren't to be written (there
are various reasons why Orca developers and others don't want to do
this, partly hinted at above and discussed in much more detail in the
past), we will need another system. You asked whether any other Linux
app can contact skype users, and this is also another area of conflict,
but the short answer being you can't. (the reason is that the skype
protocol is not open so developers of other apps can't use it because
they have no way of freely finding it out)

Now what I would suggest. You used the term voice conferencing, which
doesn't just mean skype (although it might to many people), so you 
could
use a system using a free open standard where a choice of windows or
linux clients are available. Unfortunately I don't know enough about
VOIP clients to know what is available on each platform, but from what 
I
understand ekiga supports the h.323 protocol commonly known as the
netmeeting protocol, and also it supports SIP which is supported by 
many
clients. May be your group would consider using one of these systems
(recommending a client for those who may find the choice daunting), but
allowing those who want/need the choice to have the choice.

Is this helpful to you?

Michael Whapples
On Sun, 2008-03-09 at 06:21 +0000, Michael Weaver wrote:

i am very new to voice conferenceing so i don't know anything
about voice applications such as skype or any of the other linux
or windows applications although i have used msn to do keyboard
chat.  i am aware that a while ago on this list there seemed to
be some heated discussion about skype not being accessible with
orca or that it isn't a priority because there are other linux
apps.  i don't want to end up ruffling any feathers so to speak
on the subjecct but a group of us in my local area have started a
group to lease if you like between different blind organisations
and try to provide services ie it training etc and none of the
group at the moment apart from me use linux.  one of the things
they are wanting to do is to use voice conferenceing so we don't
have to awl meet formally and the chairman and vice chairman are
wanting people to use skype.
if i am not gothe to be using skype are any of the linux
alterantighes ie ekiga able to contact skype users?
i ask this because i did have windows running on my desktop only
spyhunter has put all applications out of action and i have not
been able to fix it when i got a trojan on my system and tried to
use spyhunter to remove it and it keeps uing up with a security
message for the spyhunter guard or something so i am just using
linux and my braillenote for internet access and email at the
moment and i have not yet been able to encourage my group to use
linux although it is something i have offered to help teach the
basics of if we were to provide it training but the group is only
interested in teaching  windows screenreaders such as jaws and
nvda etc at present.



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_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
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http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca
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