Re: [orca-list] Blockquotes?

[Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis googlemail com>]

With regards to long objects, "block" is a very confusing term in this 
context. It can be used to refer to arbitrary selections of text, 
semantic segments of text, new paragraphs, or indented text. If I 
understand you correctly, when you talk of a "block of non-link text" 
you mean a segment of text that doesn't contain a hyperlink anchor. For 
instance you might have a long paragraph with two links interspersed 
amongst the text, such that it would consist of three non-link text 
segments: one before the first link, one between the links, and one 
after the second link. If I've got this right, that gives rise to two 
questions:

1. How long is a large segment as opposed to a small segment?

2. What is the utility of cycling between large non-link segments? Is 
the real use-case here to skip over navigation areas containing long 
lists of links and little or no non-link text?

With regards to frames, when you say the "identification of the frames", 
do you mean announcing some sort of title for each frame as you cycle 
through them rather than "HTML container" which is what Orca currently says?

The Window-Eyes HTML manual has two frames:

http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/Manual/HTML/

Each frame actually is given a title attribute. One is "Navigation 
frame"; the other is "Content frame". The Firefox Accessibility 
Extension provides a frame list feature and the beta can be used with 
Firefox Minefield:

http://firefox.cita.uiuc.edu/index.php#beta

It correctly lists these title attributes as the frame titles, following 
WCAG:

http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#frame-names

I had a look at the frames in Accerciser and Firefox is putting the 
title attribute into the description property of the Frame object. So 
this should certainly be possible to implement with Orca.

An interesting question is what heuristics to use, if any, to identify 
frames in the absence of such a title attribute or description property. 
For example, we might wish to use the title element, the first heading 
element, or failing that the first text from a document embedded using a 
frame. I don't know whether Firefox already inserts any of those into 
the description property.

I didn't follow what you were saying about anchors. Typically, external 
and internal links are not presented differently by visual user agents, 
so they do not "appear" differently to most users. The heuristics to 
determine whether a link is genuinely external to a given resource can 
be complicated by a web resource being referenced by more than one URI, 
so it's worth thinking about precisely what we mean by "external" in 
this context. If by internal means a fragment of the current URI as 
opposed to the current resource, then that should be possible.

--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis

Hermann wrote:
> Hi Krister,
> I know this blockquotes from Jaws and Window Eyes, but I never ever used 
> it.
> Regarding "lage objects": I think it could be rebuild to just moving to 
> "large blocks of non-link text"; then it would be useful. But actually you 
> land sometimes on links, headings etc., and I couldn't figure out why. 
> Perhaps because they have long names...
> Regarding frames: There are FF hotkeys for frames (F6 and Shift+F6), but 
> the problem the developers have to solve here is the identification of the 
> frames. This seems a bit tricky since they often are not labeled properly. 
> Maybe further accessibility development by the FF team is needed, but I 
> think it should be done as soon as possible.
> Another item are anchors. Either there is a new keystroke implemented, or, 
> since they are links, pressing "u" and "shift+u" should announce them as 
> they appear. This variant is implemented in Firevox, it announces "external 
> link" and "internal link" when you come upon a link.
> Hermann
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