Re: NM CLI

[Bryan Duff <duff0097 gmail com>]

Well, why not all three: CLI, curses-based (like aptitude), and the current GUI.

I see no reason why there can't be a backend that does all the dbus work ("nm-client-lib" and that's all it would need to do) while the frontends populate that the information via the interfaces listed above.

And yeah, headless wireless servers - me likey for my tiny webserver at home, and with connection-sharing even better.  And writing scripts that do "ip r a blah", and "iwconfig wlan0 blah" is silly when NetworkManager would potentially make life so much easier.  I'm seeing more usage of dbus on server applications (e.g. dnsmasq).

And on fluxbox, or other WM's that currently aren't supported, a real dbus backend library would still be useful to support those WM's.  And even if these users go the curses route, then you might as well have a good ol' CLI interface as well, since it'll be easier to get functional and out to people that are savvy enough to use it.

As far as these negatives:
1) I don't see NM that far behind the kernel and related utilities (iproute2).
2) The NM plugins (ipsec, and openvpn) are going beyond normal users anyway.
3) I think NM has largely succeeded at getting networking easy to setup for common users (mobile broadband and wifi is easier than windows imho).
4) And yes, I'm playing with 3g usb devices attached directly to my server, because in the USA 3g has more reach for rural folk than DSL/Cable.

So why not start looking into the server, or non-desktop user.  Btw, I'm essentially going to do this, but I don't want to fork or create a silly python client.

-Bryan

On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre <mathieu tl gmail com> wrote:

Are you guys refering to something *purely* CLI, or simple some
application (I'm thinking curses here, for example) that could be run
from the command line?

I could see something like network-manager for the command-line as an
application similar to aptitude. I guess that could be done, and would
maybe let users benefit from some of the simplicity that nm-applet
brings to the GUI world.

That said, if it's something entirely CLI, I personally find that it
would probably be easier to just use ifconfig and whatnot. It takes
care of most things simply, that is unless you're trying to play with
wireless or 3g. :)

I wonder if headless(wireless|3g) boxes really are all that common...

Mathieu Trudel
mathieu tl gmail com

On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:40 PM, John Mahoney<jmahoney waav com> wrote:
> At the risk of contradicting my personal feelings towards a NM CLI,  I would
> have to say the idea of porting network manager to the command line is some
> what of a paradox.
>
> NEG.
> 1. NM's main goal has been to make network configuration transparent and
> simple to the common user.
> 2. NM will always be a few months behind the fundamental kernel drivers and
> user space applications which drive networking and often require
> understanding of scripting in BASH or comparable.
> 3. The NM CLI based off the GUI would be even further behind the NM applet,
> unless properly engineer.
> 4. Most Linux users have come to appreciate the simplicity of NM and only
> turn back to command line when NM is not yet able to implement a complex
> networking feature.
>
> POS.
> 1. User running headless box could also benefit from NM.
> 2. Easily script NM configuration changes.
> 3. If you are like myself using a GUI is like pulling teeth, yet I have
> delightfully found NM to be the "laughing gas" of GUI's which has brought
> some people to actually enjoy dentist visits.(obscure analogy)
>
> If someone was to implement a *real* CLI, I believe it would have to use the
> same guts as the GUI or else it would be a QA nightmare. Anyone who read
> this far thank you for your time and I would like to conclude by saying I
> would be for a NM CLI if other felt it truly is possible.
>
> --
> John
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Bryan Duff <duff0097 gmail com> wrote:
>>
>> I have.  It's written in python, and needs a lot of work (fex, last time I
>> checked it had no support for mobile broadband wireless).
>>
>> I'd prefer C over python, and I figured that wouldn't be too difficult
>> given what nm-applet already offers.  Pidgin might be a good example - they
>> seem to have nm-applet functionality built in.  So going the C lib route
>> would allow for a cli program (library frontend) as well a building this
>> functionality into other programs.  In this sense python feels restrictive.
>>
>> -Bryan
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Rodney Morris <rodamorris gmail com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Bryan Duff<duff0097 gmail com> wrote:
>>> > Is there anyone going forward with this?
>>> >
>>> > It would be useful for non-X or non-KDE/GNOME setups.  And if people do
>>> > think it's worth doing (I do) then what is the best path?
>>> >
>>> > 1) Split nm-applet into nm-client-lib (backend - with dbus calls) and
>>> > gnome
>>> > based nm-applet, then create an nm-cli.
>>> >  - I like this option the most because this should re-use a lot of code
>>> > (libnm_* for example).
>>> >
>>> > 2) Or something I haven't thought of.
>>> >
>>> > I've seen a couple partial implementations of a NM cli, but they all
>>> > use
>>> > python (often poorly), and I think that's unnecessary.  Hopefully I'm
>>> > late
>>> > to the party and something is already being done about this.
>>> >
>>> (Forgot to repy to the list.)
>>>
>>> Have you looked into cnetworkmanager?  According to its discription on
>>> the Fedora build system:
>>>
>>> "Cnetworkmanager is a command-line client for NetworkManager, intended
>>> to supplement or replace the GUI applets."
>>>
>>> You can get more information and download the source at
>>> http://vidner.net/martin/software/cnetworkmanager/.
>>>
>>> I have no idea how well it works as I've never used it.  I just
>>> noticed the program a couple of weeks ago when a bunch of updates were
>>> pushed out for F10 and F11.
>>>
>>> Rod
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NetworkManager-list mailing list
>>> NetworkManager-list gnome org
>>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NetworkManager-list mailing list
>> NetworkManager-list gnome org
>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
>>
>
>
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