Re: trash/delete prompt

[Milosz Derezynski <internalerror gmail com>]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Brian Crockford <dosperm gmail com> wrote:

Your arguments apply to very new users almost exclusively. Such users
will need instruction on how to operate a computer anyway;

I was able to follow you up to here, and fully agree (what I wrote applies to novices almost exclusively, at least to novices using the trash bin).

However, I want to take reservation against the allgeiation that I've said that Linux is "like Windows".
It was merely one of many possible examples. I guess Linux people (at least others than me, as I'm
not that sensitive or rather, focused on these) really need to desensitize to the words "Windows"
and maybe to at least some extent "Microsoft", at least when both are used in a technical context.
 

why
instruct them to depend on the computer to second guess every decision
they make?

But here, I can not follow anymore. Sure what I described seems like an elaborate plan, and there's
always this fear of "too much noise" on the GUI on GNOME. Once this would be implemented, and
there was an easy way to turn it off, I'm pretty sure these novices would like it.

I'm also sure this would be a helpful function for children, regardless whether they are novices or not.
But here I already sense a "why would children use the trash bin anyway?" question coming.

You can always anticipate what users will do, will not do, need or won't need. But that isn't the point,
and it is *not* a usability discussion if you do that. That is application design (of which part is also
usability but from a quite different angle).

The point is, and that's what usability in our thread's context is, is to allow the people to do that *what*
they do and what they *can* do *with* the app in such a way that it is non-disruptive, intuitive and
unambigous.

Adding the notification bubble upon deletion would in my eyes solve the ambiguity problems with the Trash Can.

You can also see it, even though it is a concrete example, as an abstract plan that "something should
notify the user that the files landed in a trash folder from which they can be put back again", based on
which many different scenarios on how that is supposed to happen can be imagined.

I just wanted to add as a last line that if you want to innovate (and here again, please don't think of Microsoft
when I say this, because innovation in itself is a *good* thing, and yes I mean proper innovation not just
slapping features on top of everything, it has only gotten a somewhat bad connotation because of Microsoft
touting it all the time), you have to be somewhat daring. Otherwise it will everything always be just a reiteration
of whatever came before.

Since I'm halfways inside a GNOME rant, I'll just finish it up: It is finally time that GNOME does some proper
decisions on its own, and doesn't just copy for the bigger part. I've installed OS X recently, and came to realize
what amount of GUI elements, applications and other kinds of features is simply copied from OS X. This is not
terrible in itself, but shows a lack of being daring to introduce own ideas.

Only in that sense, but not (yet) fully agreeing to what they are specifically trying to do, I pretty much welcome
Ubuntu's idea of the new notification system. It's something that they didn't just take from other OSs, not just for
the sake of "not taking it from another OS", but because you actually get the chance to make your mind up on
your own about that thing that you are doing and are not preloaded with concepts, etc. Because the only thing
that is worse than a concept that is simply copied, is a concept that gets copied, appears for the most part
like the original concept, but is altered in subtle ways as not to be identical for whatever reason: think
"embrace and extend" here, it's just the same thing, except that the victim is not the cashpayer's money but
the user's comfort, and yes, I am still talking about the trash bin.

OK so much to that!

Cheers
M.
 

Brian

[1] http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
[2] http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/phishing.pdf

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