Re: [Nautilus-list] Re: [Galeon-devel] native scrollbars (again)

["Govind S. Salinas" <govind theshadows darktech org>]

Hi,

I'm not an active member of this list or anything but I do read it on a regular basis and I have some
things to say on this topic.  First off, I don't think you CAN have to many options.  I know that flies in
the face of all the people who cry out, "There is too much, I can't handle it all!", but I think there is a
place for all of the more nit-pickie customizations out there.  And I love Galeon because it has many
of these types of things. 

However, I do believe that things should be as psychologically correct as possible on default and
allow individuals to change it to their preferences.  In my experience, for every feature you have you
will find someone who hates how it behaves and one who wouldn't want it any other way.  So these
things should be available for them.  Stick them in an Advanced section or partition it off into Beginner,
Intermediate and Advanced sections.  But DON'T get rid of them.  Except of course that there are some
that should simply not be needed at all.  The backspace - ^H - delete issue in terminals was a good
example.  But these are in the minority, I believe.  I'm gonna go ahead and argue with the you on
your choices for things.

On Wed, 2001-10-24 at 18:55, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> <quote who="Daniel Erat">
>
> > There's been a lot of talk about Galeon having too many preferences, but
> > I haven't seen many examples of specific prefs that should be removed.
>
> I think you just made one of those Titanic "show me the money" boo-boos...
>
> ;)
>
> I'll provide a list of what I consider to be superfluous preferences; and I
> offer them as a happy user of Galeon. I hope you can look into these and
> turn Galeon into the most usable browser for GNOME, as well as the hippest.
>
> > The Tab Colors colorpickers were mentioned, but what should the defaults
> > or alternate color-choosing behavior be?  (Remember, the text has to be at
> > least readable, and ideally not ugly, when used in conjunction with every
> > GTK theme that someone may be using.)
>
> Then base them on the GTK+ colours. You could even use the Nautilus icon
> label magic colour code to do it - it won't have the same issues that
> Nautilus has on the desktop because they'll be sitting on a single colour.
>
> And now, the list (I'll ignore the abundant use of menus and menu items in
> this list, and focus on the prefs box - something should be done about the
> menus as well; they look like KDE menus):
>
>   * On Startup / On New Page -> agree on something sane for both
>     
No.  I don't want the same thing for both.  I set my home page to be the portal so its good for starting
up in, it lets me navigate quickly.  However, I want my new page to be a copy of where I currently am
because I often have forks in what I wish to read on a certain site.  This is an easy convenient way to
get around.
>   * When Adding Bookmarks -> just use the page title, the user doesn't want
>     to be harassed every time they open a tab, and titles are well
>     understood
>     
At work I do some web app development.  I deal with the test environment and the live environment. 
They both have the same titles.  And different pages within the app have the same title.  I mark one
test and one Live.  And I mark what other pages are distinctly.  On a more general note.  How many
pages are out there that have "Page Title" as the page title?  Leave the option.  If you think it won't
get used stick it in an out of the way (but logical) corner somewhere.
>   * Show Folder Actions -> just put it somewhere sane, the bottom is good
>     (this is menu craziness, you can do all of these things far more easily
>     in the editor)
>
>   * AutoBookmarks -> unless this has serious performance issues, just do it
>     automagically for a good number; 15 is the default, may as well use that
>     
I don't want them cluttering up my bookmarks and I don't ever use them, so why do it at all.  But some
people I'm sure think that this is a life saver.  Please, let me turn it off.
>   * Smart Bookmarks -> You can fit the entries to the toolbar area, and
>     again, unless there are serious performance concerns, history should be
>     automagic. Extra buttons and clearing? Choose something sane!
>     
While I agree with you mostly here, I'm not sure that all, or even most, people can agree on what is
sane.  If that was the case we probably wouldn't be having this thread.
>   * History -> what's a 'whole' or 'simplified' URL? Do I care? Just make it
>     work for me. Shouldn't autocompletion happen automagically?
>     
Do give them more description of whole and simplified.  They are different things and one works better for
some people and the other works better for the other.  And it DOES happen automatically.  From my
point of view, I say "Why should the programmer dictate to me every aspect of how this thing works?"
Sure some, even most people will want a lesser level of control but they will all want to controll something
different.
>   * Remember zoom settings -> with a perky zoom box, this shouldn't be an
>     issue.
>     
Well other than the fact that you would have to search your zoom history for every page that you load, and
some people might not like that.
>   * Tabbed Browsing -> most of these are crack, and should just behave in an
>     expected way for 'interactive tabs'
>     
Maybe some of them should be moved off into another area but they are NOT crack.  And 'interactive tabs'
doesn't mean anything to me so I'm not sure what you mean here
>   * Tab names -> crack, just make it work, I don't have to worry about any
>     of these prefs at all
>     
see above.  You seem to be under the impression that there is ONE right way to do many of these things.
In most cases there isn't.  We certainly want to have the 'shorten' option but you should probably expect it
to shorten on its own.
>   * Tab colours -> as mentioned above, you can tailor these to the GTK+
>     theme programatically.
>     
sure if it works.  I have no problem with this.
>   * Window Title -> just make it make sense (%s - Galeon is a recognised
>     standard ala netscape, etc. people are familiar with it)
>     
Why do I need to see Galeon on the title?  Or conversly why do I need the page name if I have tabbed view.
This is another candidate for the Advanced area.
>   * Fullscreen / Default layout -> shouldn't these just be interactive,
>     rather than in the prefs box?
>     

I want everything to show up.  Some people want a kiosk mode.  

I could go on with these but I hope I've made my point.  The problem in most cases isn't that the option exists
or that the default is bad, they usually behave quite rationally by default.  Just tuck them out of the way so the
lusers don't get scared.  You'll never be able to get everyone to agree on the One True Way that prefs should
work.  But you can make a compromise and provide a way to change it for those that want it.  And no small part
of why I'm writing this is that I don't want you to rain on my parade of options.  I use a lot of them and I want to
keep them.  Don't take my configurability to give someone else simplicity, especially when you don't have to
trade it away completely.

-Govind Salinas Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be prosecuted. ICQ:32026672 AIM:DyErthScum