Re: Guadalinfo Accesible case study

[J. Félix Ontañón <fontanon emergya es>]

El día 24 de enero de 2012 13:00, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com> escribió:
> Hi Félix.
>
> So is it useful? To be honest, I'm not so sure that it is. I mean, on
> the one hand it is indeed a GNOME deployment. On the other hand, it's
> GNOME *2.28* deployment. GNOME 2.28 was released in September 2009, so
> the content is not especially timely.

IMHO you should reconsider this sentence. If we only take as reference
deployments with last version of a software we will limit focus on the
early-adopters. It often takes some time since a new software is
released and it is considered for a big deployment.

A collection of deployment stories usually don't talk about brand new
software releases.

> Furthermore, earlier this morning
> I spent some time going through the other deployments listed on the page
> you referenced [1]. And my findings are here [2]. The executive summary
> is that I think that the "Deployments" page sends the wrong message(s).

Awsome! that wiki page is unmaintained and maybe you're right about the message.
I'll take my time to answer there too :)

> We (GNOME) are trying to promote GNOME 3 as not just the future, but the
> present, modern free desktop solution of choice. Adding a "case study"
> from 2012 which promotes a 2009 GNOME release strikes me as being
> diametrically opposed to that goal. Perhaps once Guadalinfo is shipping
> GNOME 3.x it would be worthy of promotion/marketing/highlighting by
> GNOME as a modern, sizable deployment.

Of course it is! Even the Andalusian regional Gov is running some
developments on GNOME 3 for their distro:

http://forja.guadalinex.org/svn/guadalinexv8/pkgs/

I hope they make a deployment soon before devel-team starts developing
GNOME 4 ;)
Things are often slow, but I really think references and deployments
should to be collected.

> Having said that, let me address the rest of your questions and
> comments:
>
>> The point is that even in the original spanish text it slightly seems
>> to mean that.
>
> That makes it all the more problematic IMHO. Content should be clear and
> accurate, in addition to being consistent across the languages in which
> it is written.

You're right, this should be fixed. Nothing to discuss here.

>> In fact, the document is more focused on being interesing (and
>> encouraging) for deployers than developers.
>> Do you think to distinguish wherer a feature was added or not it's
>> really needed?
>
> If I did not think it was really needed, I would not have suggested it.
>
> For what it's worth, I was not considering your document from the point
> of view of developers; I was considering it from the perspective of
> users and potential deployers -- both actual (sysadmin types) and
> managerial. If your document suggests, for instance, that Orca users
> will have a JAWS profile by installing GNOME they might be surprised to
> discover this is not the case. If your document suggests, as another
> example, that PDFs can be accessed by Evince when all evidence suggests
> the contrary, you risk giving workers, their IT departments, and their
> supervisors misinformation regarding an expected job duty.

This needs two separated answers:
* About JAWS profile: It wasn't my intention making the reader think
every-single development made went upstream. If you think so, maybe it
should be clarified.
* About Evince: I exposed in my previous email I wasn't simply well
enough informed. Thanks for your comments here.

>> >      * There is no "keyboard profile similar to JAWS" in Orca.
>>
>> Not in upstream, but at least it was developed for the project.
>
> Then state that clearly.

I'll distinguish whether a contribution went upstream or not at section five.
Your help here will be really appreciated.

>> >      * GNOME Voice Control is not a GNOME module and is for all intents
>> >        and purposes dead. [1]
>>http://forja.guadalinex.org/svn/guadalinexv8/pkgs/
>> Yes, and it's a real pity, but the work was done, deployed in the
>> telecenter network and upstreamed anyway:
>>
> http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/festlang/trunk/gnome-voice-control/ChangeLog?revision=359&view=markup
>
> Again, this should be stated clearly. GNOME does not have a voice
> recognition solution at the moment. Deployers could solve that with
> g-v-c, but the solution is not maintained and also depends on long-since
> deprecated modules which are no longer part of GNOME. Deployers should
> know these things in order to make a decision about what version of
> GNOME to deploy should voice recognition be a requirement of theirs.

The document states clearly GNOME 2.28 is used as base Desktop.
A new section on the document about "How to replicate Guadalinfo
Accesible project" would satisfy that point.
But even without this section I think the document is worthy enough as
a Success Story.

>> As for the company names or contributors, I feel both could be
>> skipped. I don't feel this data interesting for deployers. What do you
>> think?
>
> With respect to data, I think that first and foremost deployers want
> clarity and accuracy.

Easy to add. I'll do.

>> I accept your suggestion. Do you find "GNOME Accessibility and
>> Andalusian Telecenters - A Success Story of the Guadalinfo Accesible
>> project"  as a better title?
>
> Closer to what I'd expect, yes. But given my concerns above about what
> is part of and working in the current GNOME versus what is downstream
> and/or not working at all and/or not working in the current GNOME....
> <shrugs>

I'm sad with that statement. Andalusian telecenters, using GNOME since
2003, invested in some improvements forcing their contractors to
collaborate with communities. Some changes went upstream, other not,
but the results are being ejoyed by users there.

I still believe this is a good practice to be told and replicated.

> Take care.
> --joanie, Orca Project Lead
>
> [1] https://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/GnomeDeployments
> [2] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2012-January/msg00047.html
> [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_study
>

Cheers.

-- 
J. Félix Ontañón Carmona
Manager
Emergya Consultoría