Re: Space, Times and projects



Speaking of implementation, does anyone know anyone willing to code a test version of this? I was thinking that some "mockup" code would be good to actually touch and feel the workflow, make changes as necessary, get it right, then submit it for inclusion to the rest of the project.

So far all my solicitations have come up empty.


On 05/13/2010 02:11 PM, Giovanni Campagna wrote:
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Kao Chen<kaochen2 gmail com>  wrote:
I understand your critics, your comments is very enriching to me.

At the idea beginning, I proposed to use links on a widget and not files in
several desktop-folders.

It's seems that Zeitgeist can easily add a project tag to a file.
According to the discussion here on Ayatana mailing list.
https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg01629.html
That's good - as a backend. Here I believe we need a front end,
clearly separating the History (G Activity Journal) from the current
Tasks / Projects, in a way that collects all entities from the same
project together. I don't care if the Zeitgeist backend is used (even
though I liked the idea of "ls ~/Project" to get a list of active
projects), as long as the UI is separate.

If we can tag, we can manage files like a database, it's more powerful.
But it can be more disturbing for the user: I erase a file from my widget
and he doesn't disappear from my computer?
When the UI is project oriented, you can have two different commands:
one is "remove from current project", which removes the project tag
(or link from project dir), the other is "move to trash", that moves
the underlying entity (if that can be moved - you cannot move web
pages to the trash).

So it's important in the design that we make a real difference between a
link and a file.
Absolutely agreed.

I first took the idea to add a widget with tab to make a real difference.
Kde already use a plasma widget to display your preferred file, but with
that, you hide the desktop. If a file is behind, you can't see it.
Well, the desktop keeps track of the visual position of files, so you
can place the icon in free space.

For this different reasons, I decided to explore the possibility of a
mutli-desktop issue. However, with links and tag files, it's can be very
disturbing.
Futhermore, how can I move or save my project if they are only links. I also
need a real folder, if I created a file I need to put him somewhere.
Well... it depends on the nature of the project. For code projects,
say, you would have a repository somewhere, or at least a source tree,
and surely you don't want it on your desktop, no matter how focused on
it you are. For scientific analysis, you would have many datafiles not
directly useful when double-clicked.
When writing a journal article, you would have just a bunch of web
links and citations.

So I pushed the idea futher and I added a desktop hierarchy.

But like I said, I totally understand you critics, so I made an other
mockup that goes in your way.
Two is better than one ;)

We keep one desktop folder.
We use a Projects tree.
We manage projects from the overview like the older mockup.
We split the screen, one half for the desktop the other for a project
widget.
Resizable widgets?

We add a widget which is displaying the contents of a specific project
folder. (eg. /home/angela/Projects/My new book)
We seen tab from the others projects loaded.
and We can display file by type.

The file is here:
http://nsa14.casimages.com/img/2010/05/13/100513081238328205.jpg
Do you like it?
The concept is there, just waiting for implementation!

Giovanni

Thanks for listening
Kao

2010/5/13 Giovanni Campagna<scampa giovanni gmail com>
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 1:57 AM, Kao Chen<kaochen2 gmail com>  wrote:
Hi Giovanni!

I've seen your page and I must admit I like it. Just I think the
"Desktop" is not the right concept here. In fact, the desktop
metaphor, while being very familiar to users, has some limits:
  - like wooden desktops, it tends to become a mess;

It's already a mess. I don't know anybody capable to keep a desktop
clean and a strict folder organization.
That's exactly why we should not encourage such behaviour.

  - it requires you to minimize the current windows (something we should
   avoid given the difficulty to restore a window).

It's a big problem in my opinion, if we can't minimize windows we can't
use the only desktop folder we have.

In addition, the GNOME 2 desktop implementation has some more
"flaws" (as I see them):
  - it mixes volumes (USB, SD), network shares, standard icons
(Computer,
Trash) with real existing files

I don't understand, don't we already do that?
Yeah. I pointed out it is a GNOME 2 flaw. Changing it would be
appreciated, at least by part of the users.

  - being a Freedesktop, it uses $XDG_DESKTOP_DIR (and assumes there is
one such directory)

I know it's a big change ;)

Therefore I think that projects should be moved to a separate
~/Projects
directory, and that an extension be made to Shell to add either a
Plasma-like widget to the background, clearly distinguished from the
remaining ~/Desktop, or something like the proposed Task Pooper,
overlaying windows from the bottom.

I have made a  mockup with a Plasma-like widget but it just hided a
unnecessary desktop because at this time  we are working in a project. I
deliberately decide to not use widget and  directly put the documents on the
desktop.
http://nsa15.casimages.com/img/2010/05/02/100502065741947598.png
But the difference is that a desktop is spacially organized: you can
put files here and there, icons are not all the same size, some appear
in random locations...
A FolderView, on the other hand, is always aligned and looks
definitely cleaner. Plus it is a widget, not an empty space: it can
have icons, thumbnails can be put aside with some description, you can
use column view, list view or grid view, you can have like multiple
tabs (like separating URL from applications from documents) and most
important it scrolls, meaning that you get more space for more
documents.

Also, I think that instead of fixed directories like ~/Projects/Work
and
~/Projects/Home, we should add tags in each directory, using a .project
file, or extending current .directory syntax. In particular we should
avoid dot-files whenever possible, as GtkFileChooser showes them
randomly

I prefer working in a desktop folder, because in my idea I display the
folder in full screen.
But the desktop folder, being some sort of temporary pastebin for
stuff yet to classify, is not a project, which is organized and
tightly coupled.
Also, not having a desktop in the background prevents fast handling of
asyncronous interrupt. Think of evolution notification, new mail, has
attachment:
where do you save it for later handling? it goes to the desktop, even
if it is completely unrelated to your current task.

But if we can tag any folder, and transform it in a desktop folder, it's
can be interesting.
I didn't mean any folder, any meant any folder in ~/Projects, that is
putting project folders directly under the main project dir, without
intervening classification.
It is technically impossible to make any folder anywhere a project by
using .project, as it requires opening any folder shown in Nautilus.
Could you imagine the mess with automount? You could go with xattrs or
gvfs-metadata, but I don't think that is the best way.
Also, we should decide what the content of project dirs should be:
should it make sense to cd to a project dir? Should it hold files,
symbolic links or just .desktop files? Is the idea to just
cd ~/Project
git ssh://random.location/repo.git
cd repo/
<start working>
or you want a more complex user interface concept?

For technical questions, it seems important to have a draft copy on a
USB stick and go with all the elements the most easily possible.
For technical questions, it seems important to easily copy on a USB
stick and go with all the elements as simply as possible.

kind regards,
Kao


Giovanni

2010/5/8 Virgil Brummond<uraharakisuke153 gmail com>
         Kao Chen, the idea about projects seems great. Just have an
         activity and
         drop it, though I think it might be better if you drop it
         twice to just
         move all the currently open ones to the workspace in
question,
         and not
         open another copy of them. What do you think?


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