Re: Problems with the French team

[Christophe Fergeau <teuf gnome org>]

Le jeudi 20 juillet 2006 à 19:28 +0200, Christophe Merlet (RedFox) a
écrit :
> Christophe Fergeau a écrit :
> > Le jeudi 20 juillet 2006 à 10:37 +0200, Christophe Merlet (RedFox) a
> > écrit :
> >
> 
> Proof reading is allowed on the mailing list since nearly 2 years...
> But it is not usable and almost nobody makes second reading by this 
> skew.

Of course, since you were always reluctant to collaborative work through
the list, and weren't really interested in doing everything in the open
(eg, you never really asked people to post their translations both to
the list and to you, you hardly ever send translation comments to the
list, ...)


> 
> Yes, you are right, there are always errors in the commited translations 
> in the CVS.  Is this a reason to add some much more? Is this a reason 
> for slapdash the process of second reading? Is this a reason for commit 
> translations which does not validate with gettext “because one can 
> always correct later”?

If the proof-reading process takes months with no feedback at all, not
even a "sorry, I'm busy, I won't review your translation before xxxxx",
at the risk of discouraging new translators, then yes, the translations
shouldn't block on this rereading process.



> > * it's ok for the maintainer to be really rude toward the work of new
> > translators (I've seen people sending their first translation, and
> > getting answers along the lines of "this is total crap" and things like
> > that)
> 
> Can you send links ?
> I always respect new translators, *always*.

http://www.traduc.org/pipermail/gnomefr/2005-September/000586.html ? Ok,
this isn't the best example since I think you were already pissed at
Stéphane for other reasons, it wasn't his first post to the list. But I
know some people who said they were discouraged by the way you talked to
them when reviewing their translations. Since most of the proof-reading
work was done through private mails between you and the translators, I
don't have any proof except from what those people told me...


> 
> 
> > * it's ok for the maintainer not to answer at all to people asking
> > if/how all the translations will get in before a gnome release (we had
> > ~20 translations pending a few weeks before gnome 2.14, and not much CVS
> > activity)
> 
> This problem was not solved with my absence. Can be that the cause 
> should be sought elsewhere…

I think in the end, things were getting up to speed when Benoît started
to trust proof-readings made by Jonathan, someone whose name I forgot
(sorry :-/ ), and myself instead of only relying on translations he had
time to proof-read... Since your illness was pretty unexpected, there
was obviously a moment of total misorganization...

> I prefer people who work, has those which is satisfied to speak. Just my 
> point of view.
> The CVS is not the place or must fight battles of ego. There is thus one 
> commiter at the same time. As a developer you can understand that.
> The good translators have my confidence naturally.

We are talking about coordinating a translation project... This is all
about talking to people, and making sure everyone is as satisfied as
possible, and making sure everything works as smoothly as possible. If
you don't manage to do that, and instead have a behaviour of "I'm the
boss, you must do my bid, and never contradict me", then something's
wrong imo.


> 
> It seems that you are unaware of that there is now a coordinator for 
> documentation.  Then, why claims you that I refuse the improvements of 
> process, since it is with pleasure that I install officially vertimus?

I don't really have time to dig through all the mails were you
constantly rejected (or even ignored) questions, or proposals to make
the translation project more scalable. Let's not talk about the proposal
of switching the outdated web site to a wiki, the updates to the
websites that were sent by Jonathan, and never showed up on the site
(unless this was done recently, ie months after you promised to make the
changes "quickly"). And even if things are getting better thanks to
Vertimus, nobody has still answered to questions like "who do you
consider as a trusted proof-reader" (ie someone who can mark a
translation as good to be committed). So yeah, the translation process
is changing (improving hopefully). 
But it's every time a real pain to get things to change while things
could be much more smooth if you were more willing to accept external
help.

Christophe