Re: Problems with the French team

["Christophe Merlet (RedFox)" <redfox redfoxcenter org>]

Christophe Fergeau a écrit :
> Le jeudi 20 juillet 2006 à 10:37 +0200, Christophe Merlet (RedFox) a
> écrit :
> > The translators who complain, estimates that it is more important to 
> > commit their translation in precipitation than to have a second reading 
> > of quality. Today, the process of second reading is public and everyone 
> > can take part in it and to note the importance of the corrections in it 
> > to carry out before commiter.
> > http://gnomefr.traduc.org/suivi/
>
> To get things straight, you had been refusing for a long time that
> translations proof-reading is done on the french team mailing list,
> instead of being done only by you, making you a potential blocker of the
> whole translation process (depending on the free time you can devote to
> translations).

Proof reading is allowed on the mailing list since nearly 2 years...
But it is not usable and almost nobody makes second reading by this 
skew. A Web interface was developed to open the process of second 
reading and it was well used. You can find this interface here
http://gnomefr.traduc.org/suivi/

> And many translations in CVS already contain really bad
> typos (and I'm not fudding since I have proof-read about 20 po files in
> their entirety for the 2.14 release), so it's a bit of a fallacious
> argument to say to people that what they send must be perfect, while
> what is already in CVS is far from being perfect (and I'm not blaming
> anyone for that, that's a simple constatation).

Yes, you are right, there are always errors in the commited translations 
in the CVS.  Is this a reason to add some much more? Is this a reason 
for slapdash the process of second reading? Is this a reason for commit 
translations which does not validate with gettext “because one can 
always correct later”?

> > There is no problem.
>
> Standard answer when somebody asks questions about the french
> translation process.
> There is indeed no problem as long as
>
> * it's ok for the maintainer to block the work of the whole translation
> team
>
> * it's ok for the maintainer to be really rude toward the work of new
> translators (I've seen people sending their first translation, and
> getting answers along the lines of "this is total crap" and things like
> that)

Can you send links ?
I always respect new translators, *always*.


> * it's ok to send a translation and get no feedback about it for weeks
> or months (might be solved by the http://gnomefr.traduc.org/suivi/ ),
> and to get flamed/ignored as soon as you ask questions about what
> happened to the translation



> * it's ok for the maintainer not to answer at all to people asking
> if/how all the translations will get in before a gnome release (we had
> ~20 translations pending a few weeks before gnome 2.14, and not much CVS
> activity)

This problem was not solved with my absence. Can be that the cause 
should be sought elsewhere…

> * it's ok to flame people who might suggest that the translation process
> is not perfect and could be improved (for example, by blessing some
> contributors as "good" proof-readers, and having a few more people doing
> cvs commits).

I prefer people who work, has those which is satisfied to speak. Just my 
point of view.
The CVS is not the place or must fight battles of ego. There is thus one 
commiter at the same time. As a developer you can understand that.
The good translators have my confidence naturally.

> All in all, my feeling is that RedFox is doing a wonderful job when it
> comes to producing quality translations, but that we/they (the french
> translation team) are lacking in leadership and openness.

Yes, I am not a leader and I do not assert it.

> The translation maintainers are often surprisingly unresponsive to mails
> about translations/the translation process, and my feeling is that
> RedFox has isolated himself from the majority of the French community by
> his behaviour (for example, we've both got #gnomefr and #gnome-fr
> because people in there were not good enough for RedFox).

I created the channel #gnomefr several years ago for the needs for the 
translation. This channel since became the point of appointment of the 
GNOME users. In addition this channel became the kingdom of the kicks 
and the bans.  One day, Benoît it is made kicker without reason. That 
irritated me, I thus decided to recreate a channel, #gnome-fr dedicated 
again to the translation.

A good work is done in calms and serenity, not in the uproar, the 
slanging matches, the free-for-all as you seem to like it.

> I guess I'll be once again called a "fouteur de merde", but I'd really
> like to see some more openness in the gnome french translation
> community, instead of having redfox discouraging one by one all (new and
> old) contributors who want to scale the translation effort, or to
> improve it, ... and actively blocking any attempt to change something
> with nothing more than "all is well, everything's perfect, don't change
> a thing"

It seems that you are unaware of that there is now a coordinator for 
documentation.  Then, why claims you that I refuse the improvements of 
process, since it is with pleasure that I install officially vertimus?


	Librement,
--
Christophe Merlet (RedFox)