Re: First UI component needing replacement.

["Guillermo S. Romero / Familia Romero" <famrom idecnet com>]

ats@acm.org (2000-08-12 at 2032.54 -0400):
> > 	For the first component to be replaced, I have decided that
> > the horrible son-of-Motif GTK+ file dialogs must go.  I have made a
> > mockup of a proper file dialog, available here:

Yes, the son of Motif must die. But some things you propose too, I
will not call it proper. For example, Close? Close and what? Close
opening selected files? Better Cancel (is that a Macism? I dunno, but
I like it... aslo tie it to Esc key). Is there tab completion? I hope
so, I can live without it, and most people I know once they learn that
they can save typing or clicking.

Of course, the "do not lost typed name" is a must, not just an idea.
When a program behaves that way, I end saving to ~ and the moving
using shell commands (the tactic I use with NS, for example).

> Are you terribly wedded to the multicolumn file listings?  I
> absolutely abhor them.  Making someone scan up and down and
> right-to-left to find a file is a pain.  And when it's further
> implemented with horizontal scrolling, it's very hard to find
> anything.

I like terminals due that, I have 80x24 cells (sometimes more, if size
changed) and can scroll quite quickly. Add that I use colors for file
names (--color=tty) plus char ID (-F), that font is fixed, and then
things are quite easy to find (more than with small icons, if you ask
me).

> You'll notice that lists in print rarely have multicolumn treatments
> like that if people are intended to find anything in them.  Scanning
> from top to bottom is quick and easy for a person to do, and I don't
> see any reason to include the icky windows default.

Cos is Windows and people see it daily. That is the only reason I see
(but I doubt it is valid).

I think I know why the non Windows version is faster. The normal one
is "scan first item of 2 - 8 columns" which is quite easy to do, the
first item is the first item (I should get a Nobel for this ;] ), and
you eliminate lots of files quickly (in next example, B D U are the
first letter, if you want M you choose second column).

Then "go down following a straigh line" cos all files in that column
start at same char. Even if you have to scroll (due too few screen
space) you rarelly lost track.

ls (Right Way IMHO (TM)):
Backgrounds.png           Directory_View.png      User_Levels.png
Backgrounds_s.png         Directory_View_s.png    User_Levels_s.png
Directory_View-150.png    Embedded_Mozilla.png    full_Screen.png
Directory_View-150_s.png  Embedded_Mozilla_s.png  full_Screen_s.png
Directory_View-200.png    Icon_Captions.png       index.html
Directory_View-200_s.png  Icon_Captions_s.png     logo.jpg
Directory_View-75.png     Music_View.png
Directory_View-75_s.png   Music_View_s.png

The MS Windows version is "scan down following a line", and then
"start to jump", like mad if you have to scroll (due blank spaces
between columns). You end doing sine graphs with the eyes, up and down
as you move to the side, and readjusting eyes every time ("damn, I
moved a line up, or no? Wait, this is letter M and that I, but below
is U... hrm I dunno where I am... lets find brute force"). You end
discarding nothing.

ls -x (MS Windows, just sick):
Backgrounds.png           Backgrounds_s.png        Directory_View-150.png
Directory_View-150_s.png  Directory_View-200.png   Directory_View-200_s.png
Directory_View-75.png     Directory_View-75_s.png  Directory_View.png
Directory_View_s.png      Embedded_Mozilla.png     Embedded_Mozilla_s.png
Icon_Captions.png         Icon_Captions_s.png      Music_View.png
Music_View_s.png          User_Levels.png          User_Levels_s.png
full_Screen.png           full_Screen_s.png        index.html
logo.jpg

The only discussion we can have about it, IMO, is if caps and lower
case should mix or not. IMHO no, I use caps for important things, so
this way I know where are important things. The insensitiveness of
Windows is just a waste for me, not a help (problems with similar
names, problems sorting).

> Furthermore, if you're columnating like Windows, a single long
> filename will make really wide columns, removing the virtue of having
> multiple columns on screen.

Funny things, ls can also "columnate", but each column is as wide as
the widest item in that column, not the widest in the dir (like MS
Windows does, IIRC). Look example above, ls is adaptative in both
cases, only reserves 2 spaces as separation.

> If you keep the multicolumn side-scrolling horror, please make an
> entry in the Gnome->UI control panel to set the default to detailed
> mode or something.  I _hate_ side-scrolling, and I want to be able to
> make it go away completely in my use.

Me too. I do not understand how people live with it... maybe cos never
had a dir with lots of files. Scrolling should be vertical, not
horizontal (as demostrated above). I have some dirs, and when ls-ing,
I can find the right file soon, but not if using Windows style
rendering (ls can do both). The above example is a small one, only 22
items, but using other dirs (/bin ie) can give a real life example,
with arround 100 items (mine has 85, and it demostrates what I say, at
least in my case I search faster with ls -C than ls -x).

GSR