The current state of affairs, as I see it.

[Bowie Poag <bjp primenet com>]

Miguel,

Please take the following response into consideration. I really, really
think you need a bit of a wake-up call regarding what the real issues are
regarding this mailing list. You yourself have admitted that you have been
unsubscribed from this list for a while, and subsequently (probably) dont
have a full grasp of what events have transpired in the meantime to bring
us to where we are now.

The following is a very honest (brutally honest) attempt to tell you my
current take on things. Take it into consideration, and ask me to provide
you with proof, examples, or clarifications if you arent quite sure what
i'm talking about, or what i'm referring to.


..I wouldn't have spent an hour writing it, if I didnt care.

 
> Wow.  There is an inmense flamewar going on in this list.  I had even
> unsubscribed from the list and now I see the tone of voice has gotten
> pretty bad in the last few days.
> 
> 1. GNOME is a team project.  
>   
>    This means that neither Federico nor I nor anyone else has some
>    sort of "special" control or give "magic" authorities over anybody
>    in this project.  

Please tell that to Tom. He seems to feel he suddenly has the authority to
tell people to killfile a contributor to this "team project".

The GNOME Style Guide Project *used to be* a team project, until Tommy
decided he wasnt going to play in the same sandbox with everyone else. So,
he decided he was going to force his will on the mailing list, and
introduce a second, competing style guide into the SAME mailing list that
the official one was being worked on. 

The result is utter chaos, as predicted by several of us. A second,
or third competing style guide destroys focus, and confuses
contributors as to what the "current state" of the REAL project is. Nobody
can ge anything done, no ideas can be exchaged accurately, and people are
unsubscribing from the mailing list in hordes because they dont want to
put up with 150-200 emails in their Inbox every day. 

I hate to say it, but you can thank Tom for that. If you dont believe me,
look back at the list BEFORE Tom decided to muddy the waters here, with
his idea of a "style guide".

If we (The UISG V2.0 Project maintainers) were allowed to do what we've
been ASKED to do by GNOME, we would need the complete and undivided
attention of the mailing list audience, when it came to important issues
regarding proposals, and subsequent revisions. We`ve tried, and each time,
its failed due to a lack of focus. Too many people are too confused
about what theyre contributing to, and what the current state of the
official project is. We're not getting the focus we need to make any
progress, Miguel. We`re not getting that because of Tom, and decision to
be disruptive to the creative process by driving a wedge into the mailing
list audience. How can that POSSIBLY be a good thing, as he contends?

> 
>    This project is managed as a team of people interested in advancing
>    the state of art in computing while keeping in mind sensible goals
>    (ie, producing a first quick style guide draft comes to mind, just
>    like the draft Tom did).

Proposing drafts is one thing - ALL such proposals should be aimed at ONE
style guide, not three. Tom doesn't understand, or agree with this
concept. Lord knows why. I've spent two weeks trying to figure it out,
myself, even going so far as to offer him a co-maintainers position on the
UISG project last Friday, to prevent the chaos you're seeing on the
mailing list right now.

> 
> 2. Calm down and take a vacation.
> 
>    When the Subject: for your post says "This unbelievable amount of
>    crap from XXX" you know you need to leave for a few days, take a
>    vacation and come back with a positive mind set.
> 

I call it like I see it, Miguel. When I see someone trying to convince
other people to **IGNORE** someone else's *valid* , and *numerous*
contributions to the mailing list, I see an unbelievable amount of crap
from Tom Vogt, not "XXX".

I'd like to know what *you* think of Tom's little suggestion.. That we all
simply ignore the people who cause him to rethink his poorly thought out,
poorly founded ideas about how to write (and run) a style guide. We're
talking about a guy who wanted "Prog" on every submenu on the desktop,
Miguel. That one example alone completely demonsteates his lack of
understanding of the real issues which underlie any style guide. And as I
said before, this mailing list, and this project, are neither the time NOR
the place for Tom to gain this experience.

Tom has contributed alot to what little progress has been made so far. I
just wish Tom would realize how destructive it is to the overall process
at hand, to *confuse* and *disrupt* the creative flow of this mailing list
by insisting that he go about some bizzare idea about how HE is going to
coordinate a project.

The mailing list should be the domain of >ONE< project. Not two, not
three. You'll have nothing but chaos on the order and scale of what you've
been seeing in the past few days, unless this happens.

> 3. Can someone show me the current style guide?  

There is no current Style Guide, Miguel, just 2 or 3 piles of jello with
varying degrees of firmness. There is no current style guide because
everyone has been tossed into a pit of confusion about what exactly theyre
contributing to. Had Tom decided not to wholly disrupt the process and
divert attention away from the real project, we WOULD be well on our way
to having a solid, consistant, comprehensive, logical, and evenly fleshed
out document by now. As it stands, the officially sanctioned project, the
UISG V2.0, is about a week and a half behind schedule due to Tom. That
is, had the focus of this whole effort not been totally destroyed, we
would be about 60% of the way through the process, not 20%, with the UISG.

If things keep going the way they are, I cant even guarantee you that we
will be able to COMPLETE a finished document, let alone stay on time. Our
current target date is mid-late October '98. Had Tom not come along and
driven the momentum of the style guide into the ground, we probably would
have been able to deliver a completed document by the end of August. I
dont even think thats a possibility now, at this point.

> 
> 4. We are not aiming at perfection at attempt #1

I'm certainly not, but Tom is. I've already outlined the revision
procedures for the UISG. Nobody even knows about them, because theyre too
busy trying to muddle through some bizzare, slapped-together style guide
called "The Gnome Rebel Style Guide" , which nobody in GNOME even asked
for. As far as I'm concerned, there is still only one official Style Guide
project here. The UISG V2.0 that Frederico asked for. Then, on the
other hand, we have a competing project which is occupying airtime on the
mailing list, which wasnt sanctioned, and merely -wants- to be a Style
Guide, managed my Tom Vogt.

Thats where we stand right now. I think I speak on behalf of the other
UISG maintainers when I say that we are completely sick and tired of
trying to get our work done here without the focus being destroyed by the
folly of an inexperienced and poorly prepared wanna-be project manager.
Yes, Tom has interesting ideas. But having interesting ideas, and a
desire to manage does NOT mean you are suited for the task of
coordinating hundreds of people with one goal in mind.

> 
>    We are not trying to make GNOME perfect at attempt #1.  We have a
>    lot of time, and we have very good programmers and volunteers that
>    will perfectionate the system over time.  So it is fine to come
>    with something "good enough but not perfect" at first.

And you will LOSE these volunteers unless you put your damn foot down and
tell us how its going to be, Miguel. The mailing list will not be able to
continue its function if its carrying the traffic of 2 or 3 concurrent
projects. That authority comes from you, not us.

> 
>    Please, keep that in mind.
> 
> Miguel.

A vacation is the LAST thing we need right now . We need to address the
issues. 

The way to reduce traffic, and regain focus on the mailing list is to
simply recognize that there is ONE official Style Guide Project. Period.
Not two, not three, or four, or five or six. A project run by competent
people, with a solid plan, and EXPERIENCE doing this sort of thing.. Not
by -a- guy, with NO plan, and NO experience.


Bowie

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bowie J. Poag  bjp@primenet.com  http://www.primenet.com/~bjp |
| GNOME UISG V2.0 Project Co-Maintainer                         |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+