Re: This unbelievable load of crap from Tom..

[Bowie Poag <bjp primenet com>]

On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Tom Vogt wrote:

> 
> I don't like to make this proposal, but the more I think about it the more I
> believe it's the right thing to do (tm).
> 
> 
> I suggest everyone filter dan for two or three days.

Bahahahahhahahahaha.. oh god, you have to be kidding me, Tom.
That smacks so heavilly of "Lets all ignore Dan Kaminsky so I can push my
own blurry, inconsistant vision of how the style guide should be, without
having to answer any criticisms."

> we REALLY need to get to do something and dan is at this time a major source
> of noise and working more against the group effort than providing input for
> it. I don't know how he got in that corner, but it's obvious that he can't
> get out of there anymore. so a few days and changed topics would give him
> the opportunity to start contributing again.

Uhh...who put you in charge, Tom?

Guess what? *I* was appointed by Federico & Miguel to head up this entire
effort, and youre overstepping your authority right now. Hell, you dont 
even -have- any authority. Its time for YOU to sit down, and be quiet, not
Dan, or anyone else who contributes to this list.

> in addition, he's constantly bringing up new topics, and I guess I'm not the
> only one lost by now to what exactly we're talking about here. I believe we
> have reached the point where we just have to hit the brakes, stop, sort
> things a bit and then go anew.
 
For *your* benefit, Tom?

As I recall, you're the one that insisted on uncontrolled, parallel
development of another competing style guide. As I recall, I also told you
how much of an unfocuses mess it would turn out to be, and how it
was going to be a bad idea forEVERYONE involved. I guess ol' Bowie is
right, now, isnt he?

This is completely your doing, Tom. Not Dan's, or any other participant is
on the list. Youre effectively trying to dictate who the has a voice in
affairs, and who doesnt. How "open" is that, oh king-of-open-development?

> an alternative is that we close the list down for a few days and just think
> for ourselves, then return. this would have a similiar effect but is imho
> much more difficult to realize.

You opened a can of worms by deciding to cloud the mailing list with some
offshoot project of your own. Now you're complaining that you cant get
anything done with such a mess. I wonder who told you that would happen?
Hell, even Dan himself told you it would happen! Now, you've got more
worms all over you than you can handle. You've honestly got no one to
blame for yourself, by ignoring the warnings of the very people who
have experience dealing with these kinds matters.

Look..I'll try to explain this to you again, as simply as I can. I was
chosed by Miguel & Frederico *for a reason*. Dan and Bill were named
co-maintainers for a *reason*. That reason is called "experience". Thats
not to say that youre stupid, Tom, it just means that you dont have the
same background as someone who actually has a clue about how to go about
conducting these kinds of projects--And, here and now is NOT the time or
place for you to learn it.

Since you didn't listen to the voice of experience, I really cant say I
feel sorry for you. Infact, I think youre unbelievably full of it for
trying to dictate who can, or cannot contribute to this project. I also
dont think i'm alone in having that opinion.

You know, I'd tell you "If you cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen"
but that doesn't really apply here. Its more like, "If you cant stand the
heat, Tom, you should have never walked into the kitchen in the first
place, let alone tried to cook a 7 course meal in it."

> 
> I'll try to push some constructive movement by putting up a structure during
> the next few hours. due to the automated poll cycles of this system, you
> will nevertheless have about 5 hours of time before you get it. enough to
> shoot your flames at me for being such an asshole and all, and then return
> to some serious work.

..Now its according to -your- schedule, too? Good god! Zeig heil, Tom!


Jeezus..I cant even believe i'm seeing this. Miguel? Are you seeing this?

Bowie