Re: This unbelievable load of crap from Tom..

[Tom Vogt <tom lemuria org>]

Bowie Poag <bjp@primenet.com> wrote:
> > I suggest everyone filter dan for two or three days.
> 
> Bahahahahhahahahaha.. oh god, you have to be kidding me, Tom.
> That smacks so heavilly of "Lets all ignore Dan Kaminsky so I can push my
> own blurry, inconsistant vision of how the style guide should be, without
> having to answer any criticisms."

not in the very least. I'm very open to criticism, and the best one we
currently have is that it might not work with users - that would be a
killing argument.
it's just that there are different kinds of criticism.

anyway, I didn't want to discuss  this. as you did indeed notice, I'm not
"in  charge" or anything, I just made a suggestion (second word up there).
you can follow it or call me an idiot, to be  honest: I don't care.


> Guess what? *I* was appointed by Federico & Miguel to head up this entire
> effort, and youre overstepping your authority right now.
I can't overstep something I don't have. :)))


> As I recall, you're the one that insisted on uncontrolled, parallel
> development of another competing style guide. As I recall, I also told you
> how much of an unfocuses mess it would turn out to be, and how it
> was going to be a bad idea forEVERYONE involved. I guess ol' Bowie is
> right, now, isnt he?
did he sent dan out to prove the point? everyone else is getting along
pretty good and even if there's dispute, we're  moving along in a
constructive way much faster than your solo effort.
that doesn't say much about the final quality, but I guess you can't deny
that SOMETHING is indeed working here.


> This is completely your doing, Tom. Not Dan's, or any other participant is
> on the list. Youre effectively trying to dictate who the has a voice in
> affairs, and who doesnt. How "open" is that, oh king-of-open-development?
stop spreading FUD. I'm participating in a totally democratic process by
making a suggestion. nobody is oblieged to follow it. if I had power over
the list and just kicked dan out - THEN you could call me "king" or
something.



> You opened a can of worms by deciding to cloud the mailing list with some
> offshoot project of your own.
which is which one exactly? can't remember to have brought the brain project
or one of my games onto the list.


> Look..I'll try to explain this to you again, as simply as I can. I was
> chosed by Miguel & Frederico *for a reason*. Dan and Bill were named
> co-maintainers for a *reason*. That reason is called "experience". Thats
> not to say that youre stupid, Tom, it just means that you dont have the
> same background as someone who actually has a clue about how to go about
> conducting these kinds of projects--And, here and now is NOT the time or
> place for you to learn it.

in other words, above you are complaining that I want to have it my way and
you follow up with that it shows that you should have it your way? weird
argument.:)



> Since you didn't listen to the voice of experience, I really cant say I
> feel sorry for you. Infact, I think youre unbelievably full of it for
> trying to dictate who can, or cannot contribute to this project. I also
> dont think i'm alone in having that opinion.
you're entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. I posted mine, you posted
yours. where's the problem? that my opinion contains a name?


> You know, I'd tell you "If you cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen"
> but that doesn't really apply here. Its more like, "If you cant stand the
> heat, Tom, you should have never walked into the kitchen in the first
> place, let alone tried to cook a 7 course meal in it."
you completeley misunderstand the problem. I'll try to explain it exactly
one time, then  drop the whole topic. I'm not trying to weasel out of
something, I'm just saying you either get it the first time or if not
there's no reason to waste bandwidth on something we won't agree on anyways.

if I were interested in my own stuff only, I would just killfile the whole
list for a week and sit down and write it up without listening to anyone.
does that make sense to you so far?
however, I am extremely interested in what anyone has to say. actually, 90%
of the RSG are contributions by people other than me.
so when you're having a good talk about some interesting subject, and one of
the guys is talking the way dan is, you would call him to shut it up for a
while, wouldn't you? I have been in a lot of round-table-talks and it does
happen.
I've been the one who said "shut up" this time. because we want to get
something done. call me an idiot, but I considered it necessary or else
we'll drown in noise for weeks.

eot.

-- 
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
		-- Henry Spencer