Re: [gnome-cy] Accelerators, HTML

[Dafydd Harries <daf parnassus ath cx>]

On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 12:32:20PM +0000, Kevin Donnelly wrote:
> On Monday 17 March 2003 9:42 am, Dafydd Harries wrote:
> > "Directory" seems to always be "cyfeiriadur", but sometimes the word
> > "folder" is used, and I've seen that translated into both "ffoldr" and
> > "plygell". I think having both "directory" and "folder" is unneccessary
> > and confusing in the first place, but between "ffoldr" and "plygell" I
> > prefer the latter. Although the former might be marginally more obvious
> > to those who have used other systems that use "folder", the latter
> > sounds less artificial, and, well, more Welsh.
> 
> I agree.  But I have one question related to "cyfeiriadur" - if that is used 
> for "directory", what do we use for "address-book"?  These are two quite 
> different concepts.  A bit like the Termiadur using "cronfa ddata"
> (literally "data store") for "database", whereas this is actually a
> different concept from "datastore".

Assuming there are no objections, then, shall we standardise on
"plygell" for "folder"?

> > "Workspace". This has been translated as "man gwaith" ("mannau gwaith"),
> > "gweithfan" ("gweithfannau"), and "gweithle" ("gweithlefydd"). This
> > deinitely needs standardising. Gweithle is a pre-existing term for
> > "workplace". Apart from that distingushing factor, there isn't much
> > advantage either way that I can see.
> 
> I like "gweithfan".

Perhaps we could use "gweithle" for "desktop" and "gweithfan" for
"workspace".

> > "Remove". The current favourite is "Tynnu", which I don't feel works
> > very well, since the obvious meaning is "pull". We could use "dileu" but
> > there's probably a reason why the English doesn't use "delete" in the
> > frist place.
> 
> Gwaredu?

Yes, I like that.

> > "Desktop". Currently, "bwrdd gwaith" is getting used. Literally, that's
> > something like "work table". It doesn't help that "desktop" is used to
> > mean more than one thing: what you can see on the screen, the whole
> > Gnome environment, and what'r underneath all your windows. At any rate,
> > I don't really like "bwrdd gwaith".
> 
> Nor do my kids, who can't understand where it has come from or what it
> really refers to. 

Yes - I think the problem is that the metaphor just doesn't translate
and that attempting a literal translation is awkward.

> > "Widget". I think I got around this one by dodging it (i.e. providing a
> > message that didn't utilize the widget concept), but once we start
> > on GTK+ in earnest (over 1100 messages) I don't think that'll be viable
> > in the longer term. It's been translated into "Widget" at least once.
> > That sounds strange. "Widged", maybe? "Teclyn"? It would be nice to
> > preserve the spirit of the original.
> 
> I think "teclyn" is terrific.
> 
> > "Terminal". There are two competing translations: "terfynydd" and
> > "terfynell". "Terfynydd" makes me think "Terminator".
> 
> I agree (for what it's worth - all my comments should be in the light of the 
> fact that I'm butting in to your language here :-).  That raises another 
> point - animate versus inanimate.  To me, it seems that inanimate things 
> should preferably have the ending -ydd, and animate things the ending -wr 
> (unless where there is a history of using something else).  But "server" has 
> been translated sometimes as "gwasanaethwr" which, apart from being long, 
> implies a person to me rather tahn a thing - I think "gweinydd"  is much 
> better.

I think what you're saying about "-wr" vs. "-ydd" makes sense. I don't
know where that leaves "Terfynell". Regarding "gweinydd", this is
interesting because "administrator" is translated as "gweinyddwr". I
think "gweinydd" seems to be preferable because words based on
"gwasanaeth" ("service") ("gwasanaethwr", "gwasanaethydd", ...) seem
clumsy.

> > "Keybinding". I've been avoiding this one by using "ffurfosodiad
> > bysellfwrdd".
> 
> Clwm bysell?  Bysell-glymiad?

Yes, I think that's looking in the right direction.

> Another question: is "configure" "ffurfweddu" or "ffurfosod"?  And is 
> "application" "cymhwysiad" or "cymhwysiant"?

Good questions.

> > "Shortcut", "Acclerator", "Mnemonic". Eek.
> 
> Rhoslyn has used "llwybrau byr" for shortcuts, and "bysell cyflymu" for 
> "accelerator key".  Also "cyflymwr" for "accelerator" (but -see above- would 
> this be better as "cyflymydd"?).  The Termiadur book has "cofrif" for 
> "mnemonic", which actually only covers part of its meaning of "a verbal 
> device to aid memory".

Since the "-wr/"-ydd" distinction makes sense to me, I think I'd go for
"cyflymydd". Perhaps we should invent a new term ("coflythyren"?) for
mnemonic.

> > "Button" and "Key". Currently these are both being translated as
> > "botwm", which could lead to confusion.
> 
>  Rhoslyn has used "bysell" for "key", which fits in with "bysellfwrdd" for 
> "keyboard".

I like that.

> > "Initialize". Usually this occurs in phrases like "There was an error
> > initializing the grobslot data structure."
> 
> Rhoslyn has used "cychwyn" - "Gwall wrth gychwyn y strwythur data
> grobslot".

I think that could grow on me.

> The Academy dictionary has "ymgychwyn", but is this intransitive only, eg 
> "the grobslot data structure failed to initialize"?
> 
> > "Option", "Preference", "Setting", and "Configuration", translated as
> > "Dewisiad", "Dewisiad", "Gosodiad", and "Ffurfosodiad" respectively.
> 
> Or "ffurfweddiad" - see above?  I think "dewisiad" is best for "option" 
> (better than "opsiynau"), but the Termiadur book gives both "dewis" and 
> "blaenoriaeth" for "preference".  The Academy dictionary has "hoffter" for 
> "preference", which I think sounds nicer (dwi'n hoffi e :-)

Dwi'n hoffi "hoffter" hefyd :).

> > "Default", currently "Rhagosodiad" which sounds strange some times more
> > than oters but I can't think of an example right now.
> 
> The Termiadur book has "diofyn" ("unasked") for "default", which I
> think fits better.

That's interesting - I'll bear that in mind.

I might try using these suggestions in some translations so that they
can be used in context.

-- 
Dafydd

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