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Re: Another idea for Magnification

All,
Yes GNOME will ultimately have compositing like Compiz-Fusion and all this will be a moot point. As far as graphics capability, all my machines have been upgraded to graphics cards that easily handle Compiz-Fusion. My keyboard, a Microsoft Wireless Natural Multimedia Keyboard, and mouse, a Microsoft Wireless IntelliMouse Explorer 2.0, don't seem to work well with Compiz-Fusion. They work great with GNOME. This may just be a setup issue with Compiz-Fusion, but if it is, it's one that I've not overcome. I have to use an old IBM keyboard and a wired Logitech mouse to use Compiz-Fusion and even then it's only partially successful, e.g. I can't get the "Negative" plugin to see either keyboard.
Ultimately, if Metacity is going the way of compositing then it would probably be easier to port the Compiz-Fusion Magnifier plugin or at least use it as a model for GNOME. The downside, to the visually impaired user, of course is the wait. If I, and others who may be having some issues, can get Compiz-Fusion working then the wait shouldn't be that bad. If not, then I foresee a lot of tasks being done on my Windows box simply because it's so much easier (visually).
BTW, to the GNOME community at large and especially to all the people who have ever participated in making GNOME better I salute you and THANK you! GNOME has come a long way over the years and it shows. I don't take it or the effort you put into it for granted. Again thanks! 

Richard Powell

JGJones wrote:
I agree with your points, we shouldn't need big powerful hardwares to provide accessibility.
However I felt I should point out that for low end machines sold today - ie with just Intel graphics - is more than capable of running Compiz Fusion very well without lag (the hardware requirements of Compiz is surprisingly low).
I've got a Macbook - which have Intel 945 graphics and it run Compiz Fusion smoothly.
However I can appericate your points about having the same thing without needing Compiz. However for Gnome - wasn't Metacity - the default window manager of Gnome was going to get compositing included which could help there? 

Richard Powell wrote:

All,
I'm running Fedora 8 with the Compiz-Fusion 0.6.0-x packages. Unfortunately, I don't have the Magnifier plugin that you mention in Ubuntu. I was able to see a demo of this on a YouTube video and it appears to be exactly what I was describing.
I'm not suggesting a reinvention of the wheel or a duplication of effort but I would really love to see this same feature as part of GNOME. My reasons are primarily selfish in that I don't want to have to run Compiz-Fusion just to see my Linux desktop and partly non-selfish in that I don't see a need to have the same hardware requirements as Compiz-Fusion just for the visually impaired to be able to use a Linux box (easily). 

Richard Powell

JGJones wrote:
Sound like you've used the basic zoom plugin - which is a bit rubbish to be blunt...as it only zoom into a specific area of desktop but doesn't move. 

There are two plugins that's to do with magnification:
Advanced Desktop Zoom - like Desktop Zoom, but does move around with the mouse. However you see a part of the screen and so you'll have to move the mouse around to see more.
Magnifitor (this seem to be new as I had just upgraded to Ubuntu Hardy Heron and this shows up as an option now) - what this does is very similar to what someone mentioned earlier - compared to Windows' magnifior tool - once enabled, it shows a configuable window which moves with cursor around the screen. Inside this window (it have a black border around it) everything is magnified. Hope this description is clear - it's not like Windows in showing a fixed window at top of screen etc. 


On Tue, 2008-03-11 at 16:21 -0400, Richard Powell wrote:

All,
I essentially have two problems using Compiz-Fusion. First, it doesn't seem to recognize my keyboard/mouse of choice, i.e. it does recognize some of my other keyboard/mice. I use a KVM setup so I use a single keyboard and mouse and have spent a lot of time and money finding the one that works best for me. I really don't want to have to change if possible. Second, the "Desktop Zoom" feature is "static". In other words, it zooms in on a fixed, i.e. static, area. In trying to read text on a screen I need it to dynamically move as I scan the text. It's great in what it does but it does not lend itself to reading. 

Richard Powell

JGJones wrote:
> Just wondering...
>
> How is the Compiz's Zoom function for you? - I've mapped it to use the > <Super> (Win) key and so while I press the Windows key, and then > scroll the mouse wheel up - it'll zoom into around the cursor smoothly > as much as you want and the screen moves around with the cursor. 
>
> You can zoom in and out as much as you wish anytime by pressing the > assigned key and moving mousewheel up and down - this is actually the > same as to how OSX does their zoom function. 
>
> Obviously your suggestion is ideal for someone that can't use Compiz > for any reason though. 
>
> BUT the reason I suggest Compiz was that you could make use of extra > features to help make things easier to see...for example I notice > there's a Negative plugin (reverse colours on screen) which could help > make things clear when it's needed etc and finally another plugin > called ADD Helper - the purpose of this tool is to dim all other > windows in the background so that the active window you are working on > is the only one that's "lit up" and all others behind is dimmed. > Switch to another window and that lights up and the previous will dim. 
>
> Am aware that Compiz is not Gnome...but a lot of function could make > use of Compiz if supported no? 
>
> Richard Powell wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I've been using GNOME for almost 10 years now. In 2003 I became >> legally blind (visually impaired). Since that time I have had to use >> a combination of tricks to allow me to see the screen well enough to >> use it. These "tricks" have included low resolution display setting, >> large monitors, extremely large font sizing and the use of a hand >> held magnifier. 
>>
>> I've read through some of the discussions on this mailing list and it >> looks like the team members have some ambitious goals. I truly hope >> that these goals can and will be met. However, as a visually >> impaired GNOME user I know what would make GNOME much easier to use >> that I don't believe is nearly as ambitious. Microsoft introduced a >> feature with their mice a few years back that has solved my problem >> entirely on a Windows machine (which ironically is not as easy to >> setup for the visually impaired as GNOME). It's called "Magnify". >> Unlike Logitech's "Zoom" feature, which is little more than a button >> mapping to the text sizing function of applications such as Mozilla, >> "Magnify" actually pops up a magnification window around that mouse >> cursor. This window can be adjusted for size and magnification level >> by simple mouse controls. What this does for me and the other people >> that I have introduced to this, is it allows me to not have to change >> all my display and font settings and more importantly I no longer >> have to hold a magnifier in one hand while trying to use the computer >> with my other hand. 
>>
>> I'm not sure what the effort level would be for this kind of task. I >> do know however that this feature has been the most useful feature to >> me (as a visually impaired person) since the introduction of the >> mouse itself. This may be a simpler solution that would solve the >> same issues that you are currently wrestling with. It's application >> independent and it's extremely flexible to the user. 
>>
>> Richard Powell
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
>> gnome-accessibility-list gnome org <mailto:gnome-accessibility-list gnome org> 
>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
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