Re: [Gimp-user] A Sad case of regression

[Daniel Smith <opened to gmail com>]

well, i gotta say, that were i ever to actually use the gimp in any heavy
capacity, or a company i worked at would, these "saving" lists would be
required reading due to the variety of formats/procedures detailed.
thanks, i guess.
:)
dan


On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Chris Mohler <cr33dog gmail com> wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Renaud  OLGIATI
> <renaud olgiati-in-paraguay org> wrote:
> > > I fail to understand why using <ctrl><shift>E rather than
> > > <ctrl><shift>S adds any time at all to your work.
> >
> > Not the time, but the annoyance at the stupidity of being told my file
> has not been saved, when I have just saved it back to its original format
> through Export.
>
> See, now this I don't get.  Instead of the dialog in 2.6 that was "You
> can't include layers, paths, etc. in JPEG, flatten image?", now
> there's a dialog that's "Hey you might have exported but you didn't
> save your layers, paths, etc, save them?" - and somehow this is so
> vastly different?
>
> I was against the current behavior at the beginning, but my GIMP work
> falls into one of two cases and it works out this way:
>
> 1.)  "Without a net" - destructive editing
>     - I need to edit something like a 1-bit TIFF or a greyscale PNG.
>     - The file is already the result of export from a complex vector file.
>     - And all I really need to do is make some bits black, or some bits
> white.
>     - Most of the time, I don't use layers or masks - if it's getting
> too complex I need to go back to the vector source and correct there,
> then do another export.
>     - So, I open, edit, export, close the file - and then I get the
> warning, at which point I pause for a second and think: "did I add
> layers, masks, etc. that I need in case this file is a tiny bit off?".
>  99% of the time, I just close without saving - but there is that tiny
> percent left where I think "hmm... I did save that really complex
> selection that might come in handy - what the hell, I'll save it."
>
> So in case #1, it adds all of a second or maybe three to my workflow
> and I've become quite used to it. It seems the loudest complaints come
> from similar workflows - which are not part of GIMP's target.  Which
> brings me to...
>
> 2.)  "Full-on GIMP" - lossless editing
>     - I'm creating a layered composition, or a background for another
> composition that is layered and/or complex.
>     - So there's anything from text layers, layer masks, blending
> modes - all types of stuff that isn't going to be retained in the
> export format.
>     - I work, save the file as eg "file_20130615-01.xcf".  I export in
> my target format.
>     - If the final needs changes (or I've been working over an hour),
> I save as "file_20130615-02.xcf", work, save, export.
>
> Case #2 is exactly how I work with everything in Adobe CS - Photoshop,
> Illustrator, etc. already.  Except that eg Illustrator doesn't
> restrict the "clean" flag to just AI (it will treat PDF and EPS as a
> cleanly saved format), it's exactly the same behavior.  For example if
> I create a file in AI, save it, make some changes, export PNG, close
> it - it will warn me that.... wait for it.... I didn't save the
> changes in a format that will be recognized by Illustrator the next
> time I open the file.  Sounds familiar, no? ;)
>
> Since I already work this way, I never see the "you didn't save"
> dialog on these types of GIMP projects.  At least, if I'm doing it
> right that is ;)  So it adds 0 seconds to my workflow.
>
>
> I'll give you a simple example of #2: a client sends me a set of
> bracketed images of a property to combine as "HDR" (never mind that
> there are plenty of other tools, client also wants the dog poop out of
> the yard and the windows cleaned while we're at it, eh?). I'm
> certainly going to consider the file "saved" only when it retains all
> of my layers and masks, never mind if the client is only going to see
> the exported JPEG.  That way, when they come back and ask "now can we
> make the sky green?" (stranger requests have been made), it's "open,
> adjust layer, save as, export, close" instead of "open, make mask
> (again), adjust, export, close, don't save".  Which saves me time,
> which saves them money, which makes me more valuable as an asset.
>
>
> If all of your GIMP usage falls into #1, you're probably using the
> wrong tool for the job.  Either deal with the extra dialog, or deploy
> one of the various workarounds (or use another tool).  If you're in
> #2, the distinction should make no difference at all, really, unless
> you enjoy doing the same work over and over again.
>
> Chris
>
> PS - we can do without the name-calling and nation-baiting.
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