Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior

[Tom Williams <tomdkat comcast net>]

On 08/10/2013 01:07 AM, Cristian Secară wrote:
> În data de Fri, 09 Aug 2013 14:41:01 -0700, Tom Williams a scris:
>
> > A couple of weeks ago, I stumbled upon a similar behavior in MS Word
> > 2010.  I had created a document that I wanted to save as a PDF file.
> > I used the "Save As" function to do so.  The PDF file got saved and
> > Adobe Reader was opened to show me the PDF file was properly
> > created.  Cool. So, being happy with my new PDF file, I closed the
> > Word window because I was "done" with my task (mission
> > accomplished!).  Low and behold, Word informed me I had "unsaved
> > changes" and offered me the chance to save them.  At first, I was
> > surprised since I had _just_ saved the document to PDF format.  Then,
> > the light bulb went off.
> >
> > What I learned was this:  Word was prompting me to save the "unsaved
> > changes" because I had not, yet, saved my document in a file which
> > Word could readily open for edit such that I could resume my
> > editing.  When I saved another test document in OpenDocument format
> > and closed the Word window, Word did _not_ prompt me to save the
> > "unsaved changes" because Word considers "OpenDocument" files to be
> > "editable" where the PDF file isn't.
> This example is not always similar to all situations in GIMP. One of
> current scenario in GIMP is this: I take an existing .png or .jpg
> picture with a company logo or a happy/interesting face of one of my
> friends, crop the part of interest in square aspect ratio, scale down
> to 106x106 pixels as this is the native resolution I need for Contacts,
> maybe sharpen a bit, export as .png.
>
> Fine. At closing GIMP asks me "save the canges to image ?". Hmm. Save
> what ? The original picture is already ruined from its perspective, so
> what would be the benefit in save it as .xcf ? The exported .png is
> more or less lossless and further lossless editable, assuming the
> original was flat anyway and especially if the orignal was still .png.
>
> What realy misses here is some "intelligent" way in determining the
> oportunity of the "save the changes to image ?" dialog. This dialog (or
> the lack of an option to getting rid of it) that pops up in obvious
> useless situations is the annoying one, *not* the export thing.
>
> Cristi
I understand but that's not the point.  Your example isn't "always"
similar to "all" situations of Gimp usage either.  In your example, you
don't need to save any changes that you would want to resume editing
later since you've already exported the PNG file you want.  Gimp *can
not know that* since it can't read your mind. :)  You could have opened
a JPEG image, performed the same crop, and exported to PNG or vice-versa
or even exported to both formats.   Maybe then change the mode from RGB
to indexed and exported to GIF as well.  That doesn't change the fact
you haven't saved your "work" in such a way that it can be easily
resumed later on.  

Having Gimp or any other software effectively "guess" what you want will
only lead to disaster later on.  Believe me, I fully understand the old
"save" behavior and when I encountered the new behavior, I was confused
by it at first.  In fact, I used to do this:

 1. Identify an image to edit
 2. Make a copy of it, so I would preserve the original (just in case)
 3. Open the image in Gimp and make my edits
 4. Either save the XCF file, if I wasn't finished with my edits or save
    as JPEG or PNG
 5. Close Gimp.

If later on I realized I screwed up the edit and needed to re-edit, I
had to start over again unless I saved in XCF format.  Even then, if I
didn't save to XCF format frequently, I would "lose changes".

Once I understood the new behavior more and realized it actually helps
me preserve my work, I actually considered it a good change and one that
will help me almost completely eliminate the "man, I wish I would have
saved that XCF file" feelings a year after editing an image I need to
edit again.

People use Gimp in many different ways.  Clearly a lot of people don't
save their work in XCF format and clearly a number of professionals
always save their work in the proprietary image format (XCF, PSD, etc). 
I used to be in the camp that never or rarely saved images in XCF
format.  With this new behavior, I'm now someone who almost always saves
in XCF format and I consider this a good thing.  Of course, none of this
is about *my* specific use of Gimp but it's not about anyone else's
specific use of Gimp either.  Fortunately, there are options available
to those who don't like the current behavior.  Use a different tool. In
fact, I've read great things about Paint.net for Windows, for the
Windows users out there.  Install a Gimp plug-in that restores (or close
to it) the old desired behavior.  Use an older version of Gimp.

<soapbox>
I've read most of the posts in this undying beast of a thread and have
chosen to remain fairly silent throughout its existence.  I think it's
unfair and wrong to slam the Gimp developers as many have chosen to. 
The software isn't perfect and you might not like the decisions they
make but expressing your disagreement with their decision is much
different than the name calling on insulting that has taken place in
this thread.  They've worked hard to produce a wonderful piece of
software and at not cost to its users.  As a result, they deserve to be
respected, at the very least, and not disrespected.  Of course, this is
not to say you *have* to agree with them or the decisions they make.
</soapbox>

Peace...

Tom

-- 
/When we dance, you have a way with me,
Stay with me... Sway with me.../