Re: [Epiphany] Bookmarks

[Marco Pesenti Gritti <mpgritti oltrelinux com>]

> What I see so far, it's no longer just adding a bookmark to a folder (Add
> bookmark to folder...) but now requires more organization by having a dialog
> up for creating keywords. This does not simplify.

The dialog is not required by keywords. It's just a way to somewhat
force people to organize their bookmarks. Nothing new also, both phoenix
and safari, even with a more traditional bookmarks system, does it.
 
> > Now, what's the difference between the menu and the bookmarks menu, in a read
> > only mode. It looks like just a different representation for the same thing.
> > I understand it can be hard to get used to something different when you used a menu for years,
> > but is really a menu easier to access ?
> 
> Considering my hand is normally on the mouse for navigation purposes, pointing
> bookmarks, and going from there is much quicker than pointing to location bar,
> clearing it, moving hand to keyboard, typing keyword or part of url, moving
> hand back to mouse (or to arrow keys?) to select from dropdown.

Again, please dont consider that the primary way to access bookmarks. It
can be handy or not depending on browsing habits.

> > (The system described in that article is not supposed to be the primary way
> > to access bookmarks, the primary way is the dialog I think.)
> 
> Might try to make the dialog less invasive. Currently it covers the browser.
> Mabey if the Jump To button would also close the dialog..

Yeah there is a plan to make Jump close that dialog too. I'm sure this
would not please everyone again, but in my opinion it works better for
common usage path and integrates better with the whole design(open a
bookmark in current window VS bookmarks dialog like a central place
where you open several windows from).

> > Note that I'm not trying to advocate epiphany bookmarks system. If I
> > wanted to make most users happy the easier solution would have been to
> > have something similar to the Safari system (like current ui but
> > s/keyword/folder and add a bookmarks menu).
> 
> I seem to be the only one without access to a mac and "safari" .. seems the
> miracle product the way people talk of it lately.

Safari system isnt really revolutionary. Simple design, force to
organize and inline editing. Simple things but they make a strong
difference. 
These are more or less the principles I would like our design to follow,
it was not inspired to safari though, that has been started later.
You can read something about it here:
http://www.apple.com/safari/
(yeah it's not like using it but ...)
While rereading that I noticed they dont have a bookmarks menu too.
But the bookmarks window is not showed in a separate window, maybe that
could help.

> > Epiphany is still just my fun project ... I want to find a solution that
> > that works well for everyone (== epiphany target users) but I'd hate to
> > lose some things that make me use the browser I'm hacking. I know, this
> > sounds a bit egoistic :( 
> 
> I respect that it is still early, but I feel I want it to succeed for some
> odd reason. Same way I felt about galeon some time ago. Can't count the number
> of people converted to linux thanks to seeing what galeon did for me on my
> desktop (block popups, images from servers, smart bookmarks, etc, etc..)
> 

I have still a small hope galeon will succeed in that sense. Even if
latest developments are not encouraging.

> > I think traditional bookmarks system has major problems, and a lot of
> > people just are unable to use them (or end up with badly organized
> > collections, that are impossible to use). If you try to look at the use
> > that normal people does of them I'm sure you will notice most of them
> > (all ? never seen an exception myself) have just a few bookmarks, not
> > organized at all for complex urls they really need to remember. I dont
> > think this is because they dont need bookmarks but just because
> > traditional bookmarks system are not usable.
> > I certainly may have choose bad solutions, but think we have a problem
> > and we should try at least to solve it.
> 
> I am not so quick to dismiss the traditional system. If it didn't work I
> believe it would have changed by now. 

Heh well it doesnt appear like a very strong point. There are so many
things that doesnt work very well and have not changed ...

I'm not saying it's all wrong, but it definately needs to be improved.
I've seen too many people not using it (or using it in a very limited
way) even when they would have needed to, to believe it works well.

Thanks a lot for the feedback.

Marco
-- 
Marco Pesenti Gritti <mpgritti@oltrelinux.com>