Re: [Ekiga-devel-list] New debian snapshots

[Eugen Dedu <Eugen Dedu pu-pm univ-fcomte fr>]

Hi Luca!

Sorry, but I don't understand very well your e-mail...

You basically say that I must create and maintain -snapshot packages 
which can be installed together with official debian ones.  I agree.

You say that this must be done now.  I plan to do it in 2 weeks, isn't 
ok?  I have more urgent things right now (inclusion in debian, tests etc.)

Bye,
Eugen

Luca Capello wrote:
> Hi Eugen!
>
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:11:37 +0200, Eugen Dedu wrote:
> > thomas schorpp wrote:
> > > Luca Capello schrieb:
> > > > No flame, please, I'm looking for information.
> > On the contrary, I am glad that people are using it and make remarks!
>
> Actually, I'm *not* using it exactly because of the name change.  I
> tried different times in the past and the last ekiga-snapshot wasn't
> working at all.  Not that I'm a SIP-addicted, but having two packages
> gives exactly this possibility: keep the stable solution (in case of)
> and test the -snapshot one.
>
> > > > On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 10:38:37 +0200, Eugen Dedu wrote:
> > > > > New debian snapshots are available.  The name of packages has been
> > > > > changed.  Install the newest ekiga and dependencies with:
> > > > > apt-get install ekiga
> > > > What's the rationale for this change?  This doesn't allow anymore
> > > > installing *both* ekiga stable and -snapshot.
> > 1. As you found out, it's because I spent much time to modify
> > ptlib/opal/ekiga for inclusion in debian.
>
> I think I read all your latest mail to the pkg-voip-maintainers mailing
> list [1] before asking and I won't comment on the situation.  Just
> remember that Debian is more strict than any other GNU/Linux
> distribution, in most of its aspects.
>
> > Now, I am too tired to rename all the packages to -snapshot and
> > maintain two package naming (well, I need to create a program to do
> > tat automatically).
>
> What do you need to maintain in double?  Hasn't Kilian some automatic
> scripts for renaming everything related to Ekiga the program?
> I.e. GConf values, binary, etc...
>
> Now you've found out the name scheme for the library [2]: from a quick view
> it seems that you don't need to add -snapshot to them anymore, which
> means that the only "renaming" is for Ekiga.
>
> > 2. But, as you probably know, ekiga will release 3.0 very soon (1-2 
> > weeks), so I don't think it's a real issue, ekiga is sufficiently
> > stable to be used regularly.
>
> I'm not questioning release plan, stability or anything else related to
> upstream Ekiga.
>
> > 3. This situation is the same as pushing in debian/experimental the
> > new ptlib/opal/ekiga (same naming), which is what happens sometimes
> > (for ex. iceweasel in beta status).
>
> No, this situation is not the same Debian/experimental, which is there
> for the very same reason: provide packages that are "risky", from an
> official Debian infrastructure.
>
> Think about the following situation:
>
> 1) John Doe runs sid and install Ekiga from sid
> 2) he then reads somewhere that the next Ekiga version will be
>    revolutionary and he wants to try it, I can understand him ;-)
> 3) on the main page of the Ekiga wiki he finds the link to the snapshots
>    repository, he follows the instructions and install
>    ekiga-snapshot [3] 
> 4) after the name change, there's no way to know why apt-get keep on
>    hold the *ekiga* package
>
> Another problem when using binary package names already present in
> Debian is that you should not assume that people upgrade so regularly,
> so the package lifespan is unknown.
>
> > 4. Anyway, I think it was by the way not possible to have both ekiga
> > and ekiga-snapshot on a system.  For ex., both contained
> > /usr/bin/ekiga and user configuration was the same (hence conflicts).
>
> I remember having installed both back in the past [4], with
> ekiga-snapshot installing everything as -snapshot.  My GConf
> configuration still has ekiga-snapshot values...
>
> And the conflict reason is another one supporting two different names,
> because IIUC the new Ekiga configuration isn't compatible with the old
> one, thus as soon as you switch to the new one you cannot go back.
>
> > > > However, will snapshots.e.n stop providing snapshot packages after the
> > > > new ekiga will enter Debian?  I don't think this is the desired
> > > > solution, which means that the package should be (again) renamed to
> > > > -snapshot.
> > You're right for the future.  As soon as ekiga will release 3.0, I
> > will rename all the packages to -snapshot.
>
> I'm sorry to be rude, but this means that you're doing a double work.
>
> Thx, bye,
> Gismo / Luca
>
> Footnotes: 
> [1] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-voip-maintainers
> [2] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-voip-maintainers/2008-September/012174.html
> [3] since the snapshot page still advises for the -snapshot package
> [4] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/ekiga-devel-list/2007-August/msg00036.html