Re: [Ekiga-devel-list] New debian snapshots

Hi Eugen!

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:11:37 +0200, Eugen Dedu wrote:
> thomas schorpp wrote:
>> Luca Capello schrieb:
>>> No flame, please, I'm looking for information.
> On the contrary, I am glad that people are using it and make remarks!

Actually, I'm *not* using it exactly because of the name change.  I
tried different times in the past and the last ekiga-snapshot wasn't
working at all.  Not that I'm a SIP-addicted, but having two packages
gives exactly this possibility: keep the stable solution (in case of)
and test the -snapshot one.

>>> On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 10:38:37 +0200, Eugen Dedu wrote:
>>>> New debian snapshots are available.  The name of packages has been
>>>> changed.  Install the newest ekiga and dependencies with:
>>>> apt-get install ekiga
>>> What's the rationale for this change?  This doesn't allow anymore
>>> installing *both* ekiga stable and -snapshot.
> 1. As you found out, it's because I spent much time to modify
> ptlib/opal/ekiga for inclusion in debian.

I think I read all your latest mail to the pkg-voip-maintainers mailing
list [1] before asking and I won't comment on the situation.  Just
remember that Debian is more strict than any other GNU/Linux
distribution, in most of its aspects.

> Now, I am too tired to rename all the packages to -snapshot and
> maintain two package naming (well, I need to create a program to do
> tat automatically).

What do you need to maintain in double?  Hasn't Kilian some automatic
scripts for renaming everything related to Ekiga the program?
I.e. GConf values, binary, etc...

Now you've found out the name scheme for the library [2]: from a quick view
it seems that you don't need to add -snapshot to them anymore, which
means that the only "renaming" is for Ekiga.

> 2. But, as you probably know, ekiga will release 3.0 very soon (1-2 
> weeks), so I don't think it's a real issue, ekiga is sufficiently
> stable to be used regularly.

I'm not questioning release plan, stability or anything else related to
upstream Ekiga.

> 3. This situation is the same as pushing in debian/experimental the
> new ptlib/opal/ekiga (same naming), which is what happens sometimes
> (for ex. iceweasel in beta status).

No, this situation is not the same Debian/experimental, which is there
for the very same reason: provide packages that are "risky", from an
official Debian infrastructure.

Think about the following situation:

1) John Doe runs sid and install Ekiga from sid
2) he then reads somewhere that the next Ekiga version will be
   revolutionary and he wants to try it, I can understand him ;-)
3) on the main page of the Ekiga wiki he finds the link to the snapshots
   repository, he follows the instructions and install
   ekiga-snapshot [3] 
4) after the name change, there's no way to know why apt-get keep on
   hold the *ekiga* package

Another problem when using binary package names already present in
Debian is that you should not assume that people upgrade so regularly,
so the package lifespan is unknown.

> 4. Anyway, I think it was by the way not possible to have both ekiga
> and ekiga-snapshot on a system.  For ex., both contained
> /usr/bin/ekiga and user configuration was the same (hence conflicts).

I remember having installed both back in the past [4], with
ekiga-snapshot installing everything as -snapshot.  My GConf
configuration still has ekiga-snapshot values...

And the conflict reason is another one supporting two different names,
because IIUC the new Ekiga configuration isn't compatible with the old
one, thus as soon as you switch to the new one you cannot go back.

>>> However, will snapshots.e.n stop providing snapshot packages after the
>>> new ekiga will enter Debian?  I don't think this is the desired
>>> solution, which means that the package should be (again) renamed to
>>> -snapshot.
> You're right for the future.  As soon as ekiga will release 3.0, I
> will rename all the packages to -snapshot.

I'm sorry to be rude, but this means that you're doing a double work.

Thx, bye,
Gismo / Luca

[3] since the snapshot page still advises for the -snapshot package

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