Re: DSF Tagging - Feedback



Scott,

DSD to dsf is what PCM is to FLAC. DSD can be used with two files types, DFF and DSF. DFF does not have any tagging capabilities while DSF supports id3 tagging. While not trying to "blame" anything, I will keep digging into this.

Ran

On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Scott Furry <scott wl furry gmail com> wrote:
Ran,
I can see your point. We did divert down the rabbit hole to Wonderland of id3tags a little. :-)

However, I don't think its fair to say the blame with dsf files and id3 tag read/write rests solely with EasyTag. The issue is a little more complicated than that. One page I ran across during our discussions mentioned that id3 is not apart DSDIFF standard (compressed DSD if I read it right). And it is not all together clear from the readings I found whether id3 is supported/considered in the DSD spec (one page mentioned dff only supports artists/album but not id3).

Yes, let's sort out what moving part is not doing what it should.
However, let's also keep an open mind about where the "blame" lies - EasyTag? libid3tag? libav? some other library? DSD spec?

That's why I responded to this thread as I did. A lot of "volunteer" work goes into making open source programs.

Scott


On 11/20/2014 07:15 AM, Ran Perry wrote:
Scott,

We are diverting from the issue. If EasyTag and MPD use the same library to read tags, there should be some compatibility in the way tags are parsed. I will check with other applications but this is the fist time I am seeing this behavior. Please feel free to compile and test :-)

Ran

On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 11:51 PM, Scott Furry <scott wl furry gmail com <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>> wrote:

    Stores may sell audio files in that format, but the library to
    manipulate those files may be licensed. This was the fiasco with
    not having mp3 codec in linux some time ago.

    As you observed...changing a tag in a dsf file causes it to be
    unreadable in another application. The explanation can be one of
    several things, just not necessarily with EasyTag. Please remember
    that EasyTag will call another library to do the writing of
    information to the file. Maybe that library is the issue.

    Again...id3 is not a rule, just a suggestion. And there are lots
    of digitally moving parts involved here.

    S

    On 11/19/2014 09:41 PM, Ran Perry wrote:

        No licensing issues. You can download dsf files from various
        on line stores. As for tagging, I see this as an issue because
        even if you tag a dsf file with a different application,
        opening the files with EasyTag will show you the correct tags.
        If you just change one field, let say add "test" to the
        "commnet" field and save, EasyTag will save with no issues.
        MPD will not read the tags. So, if EasyTag can read the tags
        but upon saving something weird happens, some explanation is
        required.

        On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 11:35 PM, Scott Furry
        <scott wl furry gmail com <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>>> wrote:


            Have a look at this - http://id3.org/ID3v2Easy
            Then ask the question "does dsf spec allow for non-music or
            information frames in the format?".

            Reading the wiki page for it
            (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Stream_Digital) I would
            gather this is a "niche", vendor specific format that
        people in
            the open source community have not spent a lot of time on.
        IANAL,
            but licensing may also be an issue.

            S

            On 11/19/2014 09:25 PM, Ran Perry wrote:

                If I tag a FLAC and MP3 files with EasyTag, MPD will
        read them
                without a problem. DSF, which should work in the same
        way has
                this problem. So, I believe the issue is specifically
        within
                the dsf tagging.

                On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Scott Furry
                <scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>>
                <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>
                <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>>>> wrote:


                    A quick look at MPD's dependencies (old wiki? -
        http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/Development_Dependencies_on_Debian_Derivitive)
                    shows libid3tag is required. So MPD should read
        id3 tags.
                Assuming
                    its been programmed to accept or look for id3 tags
        in a
                dsf file.

                    If you can see the id3 tags in a dsf file after
        setting
                them in
                    EasyTag and re-parsing the file. EasyTag is not
        the issue.
                Again,
                    not all libraries/developers are "aware" to look
        for tags
                in some
                    audio files.

                    Maybe a id3/dsf extension for mpd is needed?

                    S


                    On 11/19/2014 09:08 PM, Ran Perry wrote:

                        Agreed. I don't care much about Foobar. My
        main listening
                        application is MPD which cannot read the tags
        as well. I
                        believe MPD uses the same libraries as EasyTag.

                        On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 11:06 PM, Scott Furry
                        <scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>
                <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>>
                <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>
                <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>>>
                        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>
                <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>>

                        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>
                <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com
        <mailto:scott wl furry gmail com>>>>> wrote:

                            FYI - id3 is not an RFC or other
        specification -
                just a
                            defined/documented format that others have
        agreed
                to use -
                        sort of.

                            I have encountered applications that tag files
                using app-only
                            defined tag names - just not necessarily ones
                spelled out
                        in the
                            id3 documents. Just because an application
        doesn't
                        recognize tags
                            written to id3 headers in a
        non-mp3/ogg/flac file
                does not
                        put the
                            problem with EasyTag.

                            I would check with "FooBar" docs/src to
        ensure the tag
                        they are
                            looking for are the same ones spelled out
        in id3
                (and not
                            "foobar-artist" or something similar).

                            S

                            On 11/19/2014 08:29 PM, Ran Perry wrote:

                                OK, Some progress. EasyTag does not crash
                anymore and
                        the only
                                things I see when I run backtrace is a
        message
                about new
                                threads. Now, the problem I am
        experiencing is
                that
                        although
                                EasyTag can successfully tag dsf files
        (both
                2.3 and
                        2.4), no
                                other application can read those tags.
        EasyTag
                will
                        write and
                                read the tags without a problem but other
                applications
                        will
                                show no tags.

                                This is how EasyTag sees the files:

        http://imgur.com/s15xa9V

                                And this is how FooBar sees them:

        http://imgur.com/cLT58Yp

                                Backtrace log:

                                [New Thread 0x7fffe5543700 (LWP 16465)]
                                [New Thread 0x7fffc6ffd700 (LWP 16467)]
                                [New Thread 0x7fffc77fe700 (LWP 16468)]
                                [Thread 0x7fffe5543700 (LWP 16465) exited]
                                [Thread 0x7fffc6ffd700 (LWP 16467) exited]
                                [Thread 0x7fffc77fe700 (LWP 16468) exited]


                                Thanks,

                                Ran

                                On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Ran Perry
                                <therealranperry gmail com
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                                <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>
                <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>>
                        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>
                <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>>>>>> wrote:

                                    Please ignore. Issue solved. Let
        the testing
                        commence....

                                    On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 8:37 PM,
        Ran Perry
                                    <therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>
                <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
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        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>>>
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        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>
                <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>>
                        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>
                <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>>>>
                                <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>
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        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>>>

                                <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>
                <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>>
                        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>
                <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>>>>>> wrote:

                                        This is the output when
        running configure:

                                        Configuration for EasyTAG 2.3.1 :
        --------------------------------

                                        Source code location ....: .
                                        Host System Type ........:
                        x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
                                        Preprocessor ............: gcc
                                        Deprecation defines .....:
                        -DG_DISABLE_SINGLE_INCLUDES
        -DGTK_DISABLE_SINGLE_INCLUDES
                        -DG_DISABLE_DEPRECATED
         -DGLIB_VERSION_MIN_REQUIRED=GLIB_VERSION_2_32
         -DGLIB_VERSION_MAX_ALLOWED=GLIB_VERSION_2_32
        -DGDK_VERSION_MIN_REQUIRED=GDK_VERSION_3_4
        -DGDK_VERSION_MAX_ALLOWED=GDK_VERSION_3_4
                                        Compiler ................: gcc
        -g -O2
                                        Compiler warnings .......: -Wall
                        -Wstrict-prototypes
                                        -Wnested-externs
                -Werror=missing-prototypes
        -Werror=implicit-function-declaration
                                -Werror=pointer-arith
                                        -Werror=init-self
        -Werror=format-security
                        -Werror=format=2
        -Werror=missing-include-dirs
                                -Werror=declaration-after-statement
                                        C++ Compiler warnings ...: -Wall
                                -Werror=missing-prototypes
        -Werror=implicit-function-declaration
                                -Werror=pointer-arith
                                        -Werror=init-self
        -Werror=format-security
                        -Werror=format=2
        -Werror=missing-include-dirs
                                -Werror=declaration-after-statement
                                        Linker ..................: gcc
                                        MP3 file support ........: yes
                                        ID3v2.3 tags support ....: yes
                (id3lib-3.8.3)
                                        Ogg Vorbis file support .: yes
                                        Ogg Speex file support ..: yes
                                        Ogg Opus file support ...: no
                                        FLAC file support .......: yes
                                        MP4 file support ........: yes
                                        WavPack support .........: yes
                                        NLS/gettext .............: yes
                                        Nautilus actions ........: no
                                        Tests during make check .: yes
                                        Install prefix ..........:
        /usr/local


                                        On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 5:03
        PM, David
                King
                                        <amigadave amigadave com
        <mailto:amigadave amigadave com>
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        <mailto:amigadave amigadave com>>>
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        <mailto:amigadave amigadave com>
                <mailto:amigadave amigadave com
        <mailto:amigadave amigadave com>>>>
                                <mailto:amigadave amigadave com
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                <mailto:amigadave amigadave com
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        <mailto:amigadave amigadave com>
                <mailto:amigadave amigadave com
        <mailto:amigadave amigadave com>>>
                                <mailto:amigadave amigadave com
        <mailto:amigadave amigadave com>
                <mailto:amigadave amigadave com
        <mailto:amigadave amigadave com>>
                        <mailto:amigadave amigadave com
        <mailto:amigadave amigadave com>
                <mailto:amigadave amigadave com
        <mailto:amigadave amigadave com>>>>>> wrote:

                                            Hi Ran

                                            On 2014-11-19 16:40, Ran Perry
                                <therealranperry gmail com
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                <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
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                        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>
                <mailto:therealranperry gmail com
        <mailto:therealranperry gmail com>>>>>> wrote:

                                                I have started fresh
        with a new
                        directory and
                                EasyTag
                                                still cannot detect
                                                dsf files.


                                            I double-checked, and the
        changes
                were for
                        writing DSF
                                            tags, so it is very likely
        a local
                        configuration
                                problem.

                                            -- http://amigadave.com/






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                <mailto:easytag-list gnome org
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org> <mailto:easytag-list gnome org
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>>>
                        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>
                <mailto:easytag-list gnome org
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>>
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>
                <mailto:easytag-list gnome org
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>>>>
        https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/easytag-list


                                   _______________________________________________
                            easytag-list mailing list
        easytag-list gnome org <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>>
                <mailto:easytag-list gnome org
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org> <mailto:easytag-list gnome org
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>>>
                        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>
                <mailto:easytag-list gnome org
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>>
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>
                <mailto:easytag-list gnome org
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>>>>
        https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/easytag-list



                    _______________________________________________
                    easytag-list mailing list
        easytag-list gnome org <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>>
                <mailto:easytag-list gnome org
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org> <mailto:easytag-list gnome org
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>>>
        https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/easytag-list



            _______________________________________________
            easytag-list mailing list
        easytag-list gnome org <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>
        <mailto:easytag-list gnome org <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>>
        https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/easytag-list



    _______________________________________________
    easytag-list mailing list
    easytag-list gnome org <mailto:easytag-list gnome org>
    https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/easytag-list



_______________________________________________
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easytag-list gnome org
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