Re: Dia: Why is it so hard to do simple things? dia-list Digest, Vol 89, Issue 7

[Andrey Repin <anrdaemon freemail ru>]

Greetings, Michael Ross!

> > snip
> > You must be kidding.
> > Who on earth use keyboard for navigation these days?
> > Mouse wheel is all you really need.
> > Scroll is zoom, hold it down and you pan around.
> > The two problems with Dia in this regard are:
> > 1. Dia moves zoom focus to the center of viewport on each zoom step, which
> > has
> > the effect of zooming on the part of the diagram somewhere around the point
> > you started to zoom on, so that you either want to move your cursor to the
> > center of the screen after first zoom step, or pan viewport. THAT is a
> > terrible behavior I've mentioned earlier.

> As a heavy CAD user I know all about  mouse zooming.  As a repetitive
> stress complainant I take issue with any system that puts the load on
> mousing for navigation and control.

> You may think this is terrible (or am I missing humor), but to those of us
> that learned computing 20 or more years ago is keystroke shortcut use is
> normal and very effective - as long as you bother to learn it.  I have
> probably learned the systems for at least 50 different graphic or office
> programs.   Maybe this learning is a lost skill like handwriting.

It is terrible, no humor intended. Compare the zooming behavior to GIMP or
AutoCAD. Zoom focus stays where you are zooming, not jumping around by itself.
If you zooming using keyboard, the focus assumed to be the screen center,
that's fine.
If you're zooming using mouse, the focus is the mouse pointer location, and
should not jump around like it have brain of itself.

> > 2. Zooming requires Ctrl key to be held. Which is exceptionally annoying
> > combined with issue #1.

> Exceptionally?  Oh my gosh.  How have I missed that?

> Seriously, I understand, but it's just like a conventional CAD program

Conventional CAD programs do not put additional restrictions on viewport
movement. Or 3Dmax, ArchCAD and AutoCAD are non-conventional ones?..

> (Dia has more in common with CAD than the run of the mill office paint style
> program - I think the CAD methods are a fine model)

Seems like we're talking about different CAD programs.

> with the exception that the roller zoom resolution is a lot finer in CAD.

It's not an issue in itself for Dia, as it works on much bigger objects and
does not require that fine zooming, common for CAD or graphics programs.
The real issue is a disjoint between menu/keyboard zoom stepping (which is
somewhat consistent) and mouse zoom stepping (which looks arbitrary to me).

> Maybe if a roller button button didn't change by such a great factor we
> wouldn't get so far afield when roller zooming.
> Guess we will have to learn Ctrl-E for now or learn to put the cursor of the
> zoom center.

I do put mouse to the center after first zoom step, now. But I'd rather not do
it every time.

> I have never been to good at that, it isn't intuitive.

My exact point.

> What is the alternative?

Depends on the scale of "alternatives" you expect to hear...

> Only zoom using the screen center?  That would be very limiting.

It's already limiting. Or do you mean that mouse zoom should ignore pointer
position? :/

> > > Perhaps this complaint is due to a more modern habit of use?
> >
> > Not really, just more efficient.

> Left hand use is a great deal faster, than none; or forcing right hand
> keystrokes for high use combinations.  This is a great time to complain
> about the QWERTYUIOP system as well.

I'm not arguing for exclusive use of mouse to pan around. I was just taking
an isolated example to highlight the apparent issue.

> > Left hand key stroke shortcuts are a throw back to unix and DOS power user
> > > days -
> >
> > I though that is more to the right-hand hotkeys, like copy/paste using
> > Ins/Del.
> > Left-hand ones are more useful for when your right hand is busy with mouse.
> Not for CAD or other graphic program users.  The left hand learns to cover
> the whole keyboard.

Well, try to hit Ctrl+Ins or Shift+Del with left hand. While the former is
still usable, the latter is leaning towards a finger-twisting exercise.
That's what I mean as a difference between left- and right-hand keystrokes.

> >  > Anyone that has some repetitive stress to deal with in their mouse hand
> > > knows what I am talking about, too.
> >
> > Not anyone. Some people, unfortunately, straight decline to learn.

> Don't make fun,

I didn't, just relayed some of my personal experience :/
Guess how many times I hear the "I won't be able to do it" screams. All that
until you take appropriate part of their body and stick it into appropriate
direction. Then hold it long enough for them to ask for mercy and promise to
review their claims of incapability to learn a few useful keystrokes.
In the result, their productivity increase by a considerable number, as well
as quality of their production. As you can imagine...

> my livelihood depends on my hands.  The only cure for RSS is
> less dependence on mousing (or whatever pointing device).  Nothing to do
> with learning.

On a side note, I've heard that trackballs are less of a strain for such
amount of work, is it true?

> Besides, I already learned Dia.  That is why I am defending,
> not kvetching.

That implies that I'm offending? Well, kinda. It's of sheer love, trust me.


--
WBR,
Andrey Repin (anrdaemon freemail ru) 12.09.2011, <18:41>

Sorry for my terrible english...