Re: 3.6 Feature: IBus/XKB integration

[Marguerite Su <i marguerite su>]

On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 5:16 AM, Shaun McCance <shaunm gnome org> wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-05-13 at 00:03 +0800, Weng Xuetian wrote:
>> Actually I see this is an impossible mission for gnome.
>>
>> I see no one here really understand the real needs of input method.
>> Fix UI? That's not the main problem of ibus.
>
> I'm having a very hard time following this. Can somebody who knows
> what they're talking about (like you or Marguerite) give details on
> what the main problems with IBus actually are? You say many users
> prefer other IM frameworks, and I believe you, but I don't know why
> exactly. How is IBus failing them?
>
> --
> Shaun
>
>
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Hi, Shaun,

based on the senders' family names, I can distinguish Chinese, so I'll
attach explanation in plain English and in details(or screenshots,
links).

Summary:

actually they're talking about features that are important to nowadays
CJK end users. while Fcitx has them and IBus not. so as you never used
fcitx before, it's really hard to understand and follow.

and actually IBus did the work "to input", although not A++, maybe B-.
it didn't do the work "to input quickly and pleasantly". and has no
features to make users feel unique and beautiful while fcitx does.
that's exactly where IBus fails.

it fails maybe a little in code area, but fails many miles behind in
user experience.

like it has some famous bugs that they occur to almost every CJK user
one or two times, but enough for them to drop it. you guys must can
fix them easily if you heard enough descriptions from the end users or
developers here, since you're developing such a huge system GNOME. it
must be a piece of cake to you.

but can you implement tens of features IBus lacks that're important to
nowadays users?

absolutely no. then you'll be a pure IM developer. that's hard time
for you. because you never use an IM in your life except for
"testing". we all know to "test" is not like "to use on a daily
basis". then can you using a CJK IM as your life time choice?
apparently no, since you're and you'll speak a totally different
language(s).

so it doesn't even matter where IBus fails technically. even if you
"ship" a "fixed" IBus, users will still blame you. for no possibility
to change to his apparently better choice.  because fcitx has
implemented so many "not-so-tech, but good taste to end users"
features, that where they can justify, so actually focusing on tech
area here in IM field is not enough or doesn't even matter, like we
all know some web pages do "see much better" than others, but are they
different in implemention? no, they use the same browser and
technologies.

then by using IBus, you can't achieve the "possible user experience"
you want. it may be enough to you. but here are two simple examples
explains all:

to say "bonjour" in French is the same successful feeling to me as to
finish a whole OS to you. because we totally think different. that's
all end users think of you. they live on feeling and you live on tech
details. but they're the judges.

so all the things you can do to please them is to pick the thing they
want and try to make it even better technically.

"to pick", because "to create or to maintain" IMs are not your job.

to implement "hello world" in C++ is the same successful feeling to me
as to finish a whole OS to you. but will you implement "hello world"
everyday? probably not, since you're so good at coding, you won't do
such things to embarrass yourself. and can you implement "hello world"
any better? nope. it's easy enough to you, you don't even think of to
improve it.

so why not leave it to the ones who type "hello world" everyday? they
may know "world, halo!" feels good and modern to nowadays users. not
to say, you're the "hello world" one in this case in IM.

no one can know and do any better with IM than CJK developers. so
listen to them, let them do the IM part, and ask for their ideas about
how to integrate it better into GNOME. it's boring and needs a lot of
patience. but please keep in mind that end users in this area have
been suffering many years

because the spaceship they're on into the deep universe, is developed
by scientists who don't even know there are moon and don't even fly in
an aircraft.

actually, nowadays, fcitx is the future and standard of Input Method for CJK.

almost every Chinese FOSS developer contribute much or little to it.
that's why they're so eager to find "Recognition" from the outside
world, and that's why you see so many Chinese family names here(
they're all famous names in CJK IM or even Linux community) . and push
it into real freedesktop standard. so please do help them and ask help
from them.

because they're really tired of nowadays IM field that anyone thinks
he can make an IM. we both can write, but can we write any better
looking than artists? no

in this case, IBus is the one who you see his writings first, but
Fcitx is the real artist.

the world changed and diversified. so minimal options is no longer an option.

later I'll explain line by line on the Chinese developers' posts. I
have to lunch now, XD.

Marguerite