On 2011-07-23 Matthias wrote: > On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Jeremy Bicha <jbicha ubuntu com> wrote: > > On 22 July 2011 17:17, Ben Cooksley <bcooksley kde org> wrote: > > > > To be more specific about the problem, installing kde-workspace to > > a GNOME installation results in 2 indistinguishable apps named > > System Settings and 2 named System Monitor. On Ubuntu at least, if > > I want the GNOME version, I have to remember to click the first > > System Monitor but the second System Setting which is awfully > > frustrating. Here's a screenshot from my Ubuntu install: > > https://launchpadlibrarian.net/75745040/Gnome%20Shell%20screnshot.p > > ng > > This is what happens when you mix and match bits and pieces from > different operating systems. There is really not much that can be > done about it. Since that is what both KDE and GNOME are trying to > do: build complete, self-contained systems. Arguably, KDE is a > little further along, with their big monolithic modules like > kde-workspace that drag in most of the desktop, while GNOME apps can > often still be installed without much of the desktop. Oh, come on. Both projects do that because of some incredibly silly attitude where everything that's from "the other side" is evil. And while that attitude is not universal. this tread (starting with the tone of Ben's mail) shows clearly many people still have that silly idea which leads to idiotic things like two calculators, two places to configure the language of the apps etcetera. How far have we, Free Software contributors, sunk, if KDE and GNOME apps work better under and integrate better in Windows and Mac OS X then they do ON THE SAME OS running in each other's desktop? I say VERY DEEP. Wake up. THe user doesn't give XXXX about the toolkit their app is written in. And they HATE the confusing situation KDE and GNOME purposely create (yes, it's on purpose and you all know it) by needlessly duplicating things and making it harder to run apps from one in the other. We've all seen countless installations of either KDE or GNOME where apps 'from the other side' look and work horrible. If KDE and GNOME can use the native Mac and Windows file dialogs, why can't they use each others dialogs? To name just one silly thing... Imho Ben's mail and the tone there-in was inpolite and uncalled for. And so was the tone many responses. Sigh. > > I'd like to suggest that the GNOME developers consider changing the > > public name of their app to "System Preferences." This matches the > > Mac OS X design and arguably GNOME follows some parts of OS X > > design. Furthermore, it is more in line with Gnome 2's > > System>Preferences and System>Administration. > > That is an absurd proposal. What next, rename gnome-terminal to > 'Commandline Window' because Xfce also ships a 'Terminal' ?! > Generic names don't come with exclusive ownership... Each desktop team should stop picking such generic names. gnome-terminal is fine, so is Konsole. Terminal should probably be renamed. NetworkManager is a braindead name, System Settings implies far more than it accomplishes (it can't handle much 'system settings') so it doesn't seem very smart either. Shaun's proposal is a work-around which would probably be 'good enough' but the root cause is that all DE teams try to create their own little world, going "LALALA I DON'T SEE YOU" about the rest of the world. > And as has already been pointed out, offering the user a meaningless > choice between 'System Settings' and 'System Preferences' is no less > of a failure than having 2 identical items. That I agree with. KDE systemsettings has made a good step, being able to configure some aspects of GNOME apps (make them integrate better in a Plasma workspace). More of that is needed on both sides, OR a nice, generic config tool should be written which handles everything on both sides. Grtz Jos
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