Re: Request for removing clutter in current form

On Mon, 2009-08-17 at 07:53 +0100, Emmanuele Bassi wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-08-17 at 07:48 +0200, Maciej Piechotka wrote:
> > > I'd like to point out, though, that innovation cannot be driven by
> > > looking at the past; if GNOME, and the Linux desktop, want to be
> > > relevant with the users of today and tomorrow it cannot still be
> > > anchored to hardware requirements of 5 to 10 years ago.
> > 
> > Well - but hardware 5 to 10 years old is still working. I, personally,
> > have 6-years replacement cycle - and in notebooks I do not buy brand new
> > technology. In many institutions (at least in past) in my country (like
> > schools etc.) hardware may be even older (although this information is a
> > few years old so it might have changed). And still my country is upper
> > middle income country (although I've seen studies putting it in lower
> > high income).
> > 
> > Additionally even if I could afford such change there is an
> > environmental issue - why throw the 3-years old hardware which is in
> > perfect condition and works well just because it does not support new
> > eye candies?
> you keep using the word "eye candy", but I don't think it's fair to say
> that projects that use Clutter are only interested about "eye candy";
> the animations and the hardware acceleration are used to increase the
> feedback of the UI to the user;

That was why I was so exited by cairo with promised hardware-backend

> it's not just a fancy spinning cube[0],
> it's a way to write responsive user interfaces.
> > > if desktop
> > > environments like GNOME don't push for resolving the drivers gap that we
> > > have with Windows and OS X, by making use of features that desktops,
> > > laptops, netbooks and embedded platforms *right now* expose, then the
> > > Linux desktop won't ever be relevant.
> > > 
> > 
> > I know that your goals may be different that mine. I'd like to have a
> > working desktop on computer I have right now.
> and it's a perfectly legitimate goal. but then you should be keeping
> your current desktop environment. after all, if you remove Clutter from
> GNOME Games in 2.28 you'll have GNOME Games 2.26.

I tested gnome-games. Of course - I can live w/out tetris ;) I can live
w/out many features. But it was a post 'I tested clutter and,
unfortunately, it is not working everywhere'.

> > Especially that I never considered GPU an
> > important part of my desktop (I don't need eye candies).
> a GPU does far more than "eye candy".

A live w/out powerful 3D acceleration was good enough for me. I'm fully
aware that:
- 2D acceleration was important function of GPU
- 2D acceleration become obsolete in modern GPU
- 3D acceleration is important on modern desktops
- Not everyone have modern desktop. Not everyone can or want to afford
- Some saved on GPU as they weren't gamers. 2-5 years ago they didn't
see why they need modern hardware to write email, code or write document
in Abiword/OpenOffice/LaTeX etc. so thay have 4-7 years old GPU.
- Some bought/received modern GPU - which is not yet supported 

I'm looking forward to moment when all GPU will work OUB on GNU/Linux,
all BSD flavours etc. But this moment is not now. I'm afraid that it may
be a flood of 'bugs' - possibly in gnome bugzilla possibly i distros bug
tracking systems that update broke system. What worst - up to now GPU
needed basic support to somehow work - after requirement of OpenGL that
may be forum posts that 'Linux is not working' (and since 1 unhappy user
is louder than 100 unhappy it's not good for 'PR').

> ciao,
>  Emmanuele.


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