Re: Distributed SCM in Gnome (Was: Git vs SVN (was: Can we improve things?))

[Behdad Esfahbod <behdad behdad org>]

On Sun, 2007-09-16 at 09:10 +0100, John Carr wrote:
> On Sat, 2007-09-15 at 18:26 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> > On Fri, 2007-09-14 at 21:31 +0200, Ali Sabil wrote:
> > > I am wondering why discussion is continuing in the "Git vs SVN (was:
> > > Can we improve things?)" thread, why the discussion is not happening
> > > here instead ?!
> > > 
> > > I don't want to offend anyone (so take it lightly), but I am afraid
> > > that many of us are subject to a "Confirmation bias" ... Can't we just
> > > continue the discussion in this thread comparing svn to DRCS in
> > > general before deciding on which DRCS would be the most appropriate to
> > > use within the GNOME project ?
> > 
> > Because you can't talk about some abstract concept.  I can't imagine
> > anyone having any remotely legitimate reason to discuss that DSCM
> > systems are not good for GNOME.  This is simply a corollary of the fact
> > that DSCMs provide all functionality that the SCSMs do.  So,
> > theoretically, you don't lose anything, and gain some.
> 
> How do you set up a master repository with GIT/BZR? Generally it seems
> to involve pushing over ssh/sftp? Does that integrate with GNOME
> accounts? Does letting people push mean they could push other crap and
> hurt the repo? Or have they both gained daemons? Do they have logins
> that integrate with gnome accounts? Can one daemon handle multiple
> repos?

These are all no problem at all.  See fd.o for example.  We are already
using ssh with SVN.  It's the same with git. 

> Perhaps a legitimate reason is that moving to a DSCM won't be a benefit
> to everyone, yet everyone will have to learn another set of tools. Even
> just last month someone didnt know how to link to a file in SVN. And in
> order to make happy The GIT Crowd (and piss off all the people that just
> want to get on with their project) a sugar load of infrastructure needs
> to be tossed away.

Who was that someone?  Lets say we install a web application for
translators.  Who else can't be bothered to learn the new tool?  If they
can't, they can always submit patches.

> Does CIA.vc have bzr/git support? I guess a few GNOME projects must use
> it as GNOME is the third most active project today.

Yes, at least for git, but I'm pretty sure it does bzr too.  You could
have took a look and tell too.  Do your homework.

> How does buildbot work with bzr/git? The project looks a bit stalled,
> but the GNOME buildbot was a great idea that I was hoping to see gain
> ground.

jhbuild supports both.

> > In practice however, git is too hard and confusing to learn.  *That* is
> > a reason against this specific DSCM system.
> 
> This is the reason i've been using bzr-svn. Its "svn with benefits"
> style suits me very well. The fact is, i'm happy with svn until i'm
> stranded without an internet connection, thats with bzr steps in. And
> its brilliant.

We should get past all this git-svn and bzr-svn if we really are to
decide anything.

> > > I am also afraid that we might be just becoming nothing more but "geek
> > > fashion" addicts trying to follow the latest RCS tendency without
> > > really building solid and constructive arguments !
> > 
> > I was going to be offended, but you warned :).  Now that most probably
> > means that you don't hack on the more crowded projects that much...
> > Many Gtk+ developers for example could not have been as productive as
> > they are right now if it wasn't for git-svn.  And that's only a
> > half-arsed solution.
> 
> Again, its ok to say something is crap, but please tell us why! "SVN
> SUCKS!!" and "GIT FTW!!" aren't very compelling reasons.

No idea how to write it down in short...
Because branches are not designed for easy merging.
Because I don't get the entire history at my fingertips.
Because bisecting is not an option.
Because even committing is slow.
Because I can't commit locally, so have to finish a patch before pushing
it out and I have to do my own "svn diff > x.patch" to have some kind of
backup in case I screw up.

> John


-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
        -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759