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Re: [orca-list] orca-list Digest, Vol 192, Issue 46

Hi all, 
Thank you all for answering my questions! 
Rastislav

 Thanks to you especially for all the detailed information! 
LOL sorry about the spelling of orca! 
Amy 

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 7:41 PM
To: orca-list gnome org
Subject: orca-list Digest, Vol 192, Issue 46

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Today's Topics:

   1.  ORKA help (Amy Bishop)
   2. Re:  ORKA help (Vsevolod Popov)
   3. Re:  ORKA help (Rastislav Kish)
   4.  Are we Flutter yet? (Rastislav Kish)
   5. Re:  Are we Flutter yet? (Rastislav Kish)
   6.  the marktext editor (Jude DaShiell)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 16:07:50 -0500
From: Amy Bishop <aimeibee gmail com>
To: orca-list gnome org
Subject: [orca-list] ORKA help
Message-ID:
        <CAOZfzJ79KdnhMEu3wgwexjuwjfi5p+B+XpPJt3WqcbpsjemroQ mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello everyone,

I will be taking a class in Linux and Unix. I am going to use the latest
Ubuntu with VMware and Orka. I was wondering if someone could help get me
started with learning ORKA? I have tried to learn it myself, but I have not
figured out much. Thank you all for the help!
Amy
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 01:13:31 +0300
From: Vsevolod Popov <sevapopov13 gmail com>
To: Amy Bishop <aimeibee gmail com>
Cc: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] ORKA help
Message-ID: <BE75AE49-1F99-4360-BA76-12C2E5599165 gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hello!
I am not an experienced linux user, but here is what I can recommend you.
If you have such oportunity, use ubuntu-mate version of Ubuntu. Mate is the
desktop, that is why it's called like that. It is much easier to use than
gnome that comes with Ubuntu standard desktop version, in my opinion. Here
are several things you can start with:
1. After the system is launched, press ctrl+alt+d to go to the desktop. To
go to the terminal use ctrl+alt+t. To open mate menus, press alt+f1. If you
want to run an app, you can press alt+f2, start typing it's name and when
you hear it press enter. As far as using Orca, if you're familiar with NVDA
for Windows you are good to go. You should learn how to use flat review, it
is the thing you will use always when navigating the terminal. It works the
same as keys 7, 9, 4, 6, 1, 3 work in NVDA, on numpad of course. I recommend
you to turn off the key pronunciation in key echo settings. Also, when using
chromium or firefox, remember about insert+a and insert+z key combinations.
First will allow you to switch between focus and browse mode, and second
will turn structural navigation on and off. It can be useful on websites
such as Youtube to control player playback. I think that's enough for
beginning.

Best regards,
Vsevolod
https://github.com/sevapopov2


17 ???. 2022 ?., ? 00:08, Amy Bishop via orca-list <orca-list gnome org>

???????(?):


?
Hello everyone,

I will be taking a class in Linux and Unix. I am going to use the latest

Ubuntu with VMware and Orka. I was wondering if someone could help get me
started with learning ORKA? I have tried to learn it myself, but I have not
figured out much. Thank you all for the help! 

Amy



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 22:50:33 +0000
From: Rastislav Kish <rastislav kish protonmail com>
To: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] ORKA help
Message-ID: <0f3b0e0f-bceb-280e-a471-efa81fadb4a6 protonmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hello Amy,

sure, why not.


First of all, we should clarify, that the screenreader is called Orca (with
the pre-last letter being c, like in Charlie).

Heh, don't worry, this is not a grammar lesson, just a clarification from my
side, since when it comes to names of software and particularly commands,
they need to be accurate, otherwise the system won't understand them.


The second thing to consider is, what flavour and version of Ubuntu would
you like to use?


As for flavours, I personally recommend Ubuntu Mate. Mate is the most
accessible environment I'm aware of so far, and it's nicely integrated in
UM, so you can get things setup just "out of the box".


As for version, I recommend the latest interim release - 21.10.

I've installed it recently into a virtual machine and I was very nicely
surprised, many problems of the previous versions got resolved like the
inaccessible system installer on the installation media boot or bumping orca
version to 40.0, resolving the terminal inaccessibility.


When you boot up the installation iso, press Alt+Super (the Windows key)+S
to start orca (it should say "Screenreader on").

Then, press Insert+Space to show the Orca settings and configure the
screenreader. I'm never sure here whether the changes will apply after
installation (sometimes they did not, sometimes they did).

Thus I usually configure just very basic stuff - switch keyboard layout to
laptop, synthesiser language to my native-one, turn off key echo and turn on
echo by words.


You can of course set it up the way you like. Since you're new to Orca, I
recommend checking out the Keyboard shortcuts tab in the settings, you can
learn all used keyboard commands there and also set up your own.


I recommend paying special attention to the flat review commands. FR is very
useful on Linux, whether you're going to reat terminal output or be clicking
on elements unwilling to get activated.


When you're done playing with configuration, press Ok and continue
installation using the instructions on the screen.


If you experience any problems, feel free to ask. There are quite a few very
experienced users on this list, as well as other lists focused on Linux and
visual impairment in general such as the Blinux mailing list.


Good luck, and most importantly, have fun!


Best regards


Rastislav


D?a 16. 1. 2022 o 22:07 Amy Bishop via orca-list nap?sal(a):

Hello everyone,

I will be taking a class in Linux and Unix. I?am going to use the 
latest Ubuntu with VMware and Orka. I?was wondering if someone could 
help get me started with learning ORKA? I have tried to learn it 
myself, but I have not figured out much. Thank you all for the help!
Amy





------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 00:14:50 +0000
From: Rastislav Kish <rastislav kish protonmail com>
To: orca-list gnome org
Subject: [orca-list] Are we Flutter yet?
Message-ID: <afaf2225-a6dd-880d-c4be-24616af412dc protonmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hello list,

a recent article on It's FOSS

https://itsfoss.com/ubuntu-22-04-release-features/

about changes in the upcoming LTS release of Ubuntu has stated, that
22.04 is going to use the new Flutter based installer, which has been worked
on for quite a some time as far as I remember.


Thus I wondered, what is the state of the Flutter accessibility and how
usable is it.


I've switched my Flutter SDK to the master channel and upgraded to the
latest version.

Then, I built a very simple calculator app - one window with two text fields
for entering numbers, a dropdown menu for selecting operator and a button
for calculating the result, displayed below the form.


The results were... Interesting.

First of all, the accessibility either works or not.

Like... One time I launch it and nothing, I can be pressing tab, clicking on
the interface, but Orca simply doesn't recognize the window elements (though
flat review sees the text, interestingly, although only in the particular
window visit i.e. if something changes, the change is not reflected unless I
switch to another window and back).


But, in other cases, either right after launching the app, or after some
switching and tabbing, Orca finally manages to get a grip of the interface
and it works... mostly.

I can't see the content of text fields, but the navigation works, pressing
buttons works and (to my surprise) even the dropdown button works (and quite
nicely!).

One peculiarity is, that all buttons for some reason present themselves as
unavailable, even though they work as expected.


Another interesting thing I've found out is, that when the app is not
accessible, when I change its state to maximized or back, in a time window
of few seconds, when I press tab, Orca speaks the newly focused element.


Any further tabs or simply missing out the time frame makes things silent
again.


Of course, it is possible I made a mistake somewhere when coding the app, I
have no previous experience doing Flutter projects, in fact, I did thisone
mostly to get a grip of the framework and explore the new trends.

Though the result looks ok as far as I can tell, I've checked with
OCRDesktop and the elements are visible.

Plus, the official example Hello world app behaves in the same way, so this
seems like a general problem.


Thus, I wonder, what's the official state of Flutter accessibility on Linux?

And where should we report bugs like these?


There were discussions about this on GitHub, namely:

https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/23601

and

https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/73819


Both of which are closed as of now with the topic considered to be solved
and new issues supposed to be about specific problems.


The former mentions Linux several times, though, just in form of tags except
the first and last mention, while the latter does not mention it at all and
neither of the following issues seem to be related to Linux Flutter
accessibility.


So far I've found.

Does anyone have more information on this topic?


I'm not sure whether Ubuntu Mate is going to use the new Ubuntu desktop
installer. It would be nice to have it working properly (unlike in case of
the last LTS (grin)).


Best regards


Rastislav





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 00:20:17 +0000
From: Rastislav Kish <rastislav kish protonmail com>
To: orca-list gnome org
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Are we Flutter yet?
Message-ID: <d32691f0-02c3-bdf3-7c99-8e8c8169a75c protonmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I forgot to add, my configuration is Ubuntu Mate 20.04 64-bit, Orca built
today from source.


Best regards


Rastislav


D?a 17. 1. 2022 o 1:14 Rastislav Kish nap?sal(a):

Hello list,

a recent article on It's FOSS

https://itsfoss.com/ubuntu-22-04-release-features/

about changes in the upcoming LTS release of Ubuntu has stated, that
22.04 is going to use the new Flutter based installer, which has been 
worked on for quite a some time as far as I remember.


Thus I wondered, what is the state of the Flutter accessibility and 
how usable is it.


I've switched my Flutter SDK to the master channel and upgraded to the 
latest version.

Then, I built a very simple calculator app - one window with two text 
fields for entering numbers, a dropdown menu for selecting operator 
and a button for calculating the result, displayed below the form.


The results were... Interesting.

First of all, the accessibility either works or not.

Like... One time I launch it and nothing, I can be pressing tab, 
clicking on the interface, but Orca simply doesn't recognize the 
window elements (though flat review sees the text, interestingly, 
although only in the particular window visit i.e. if something 
changes, the change is not reflected unless I switch to another window and

back).



But, in other cases, either right after launching the app, or after 
some switching and tabbing, Orca finally manages to get a grip of the 
interface and it works... mostly.

I can't see the content of text fields, but the navigation works, 
pressing buttons works and (to my surprise) even the dropdown button 
works (and quite nicely!).

One peculiarity is, that all buttons for some reason present 
themselves as unavailable, even though they work as expected.


Another interesting thing I've found out is, that when the app is not 
accessible, when I change its state to maximized or back, in a time 
window of few seconds, when I press tab, Orca speaks the newly focused 
element.


Any further tabs or simply missing out the time frame makes things 
silent again.


Of course, it is possible I made a mistake somewhere when coding the 
app, I have no previous experience doing Flutter projects, in fact, I 
did thisone mostly to get a grip of the framework and explore the new 
trends.

Though the result looks ok as far as I can tell, I've checked with 
OCRDesktop and the elements are visible.

Plus, the official example Hello world app behaves in the same way, so 
this seems like a general problem.


Thus, I wonder, what's the official state of Flutter accessibility on

Linux?


And where should we report bugs like these?


There were discussions about this on GitHub, namely:

https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/23601

and

https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/73819


Both of which are closed as of now with the topic considered to be 
solved and new issues supposed to be about specific problems.


The former mentions Linux several times, though, just in form of tags 
except the first and last mention, while the latter does not mention 
it at all and neither of the following issues seem to be related to 
Linux Flutter accessibility.


So far I've found.

Does anyone have more information on this topic?


I'm not sure whether Ubuntu Mate is going to use the new Ubuntu 
desktop installer. It would be nice to have it working properly 
(unlike in case of the last LTS (grin)).


Best regards


Rastislav






------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 19:40:49 -0500
From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel panix com>
To: orca-list gnome org
Subject: [orca-list] the marktext editor
Message-ID: <1256b67-fc55-d633-43b6-a62194a47b69 panix com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Supposed to be a markdown editor with lots of features written in electron.
No idea about its accessibility yet.  Likely only works on a desktop too.



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