Re: [orca-list] LibreOffice and orca: moving to headings, links, tables etc.

[Kyle <kyle free2 ml>]

Devin Prater popped in and said:
> M biggest problem with Orca and Google Docs is that when one goes into 
> a table in Google Docs, with screen reader and braille mode enabled, 
> Orca is very sluggish. This doesn't happen with Windows screen readers.


That's because they're sluggish everywhere, especially on websites. ANd 
I speak from experience, having just tried to use such a beast on a 
simple banking website for testing purposes. I don't want to even think 
about trying to use Google Docs or sheets with their virtual buffering 
and such. And a website I use for work would be impacted even worse, 
since it pops up something that I have to click regularly that generally 
is always in the same place but comes and goes. It's a bit of an a11y 
nightmare, but with Orca, at least it works more often than not. I can't 
imagine what someone using NVDA for example would have to go through 
with its copies of websites and such. As I recall, someone who tried 
that was told they wouldn't need to click the item that pops up, but I 
was made aware of the importance of the click ratio for that specific 
item, so I'm very happy that I use Orca because it's what works and puts 
money in the bank.


Yes, sluggishness is certainly an issue that needs to be addressed, but 
saying it's sluggish here, but I don't see this problem over there on a 
screen reader and operating system that the primary developer of Orca is 
not using and does not have access to certainly doesn't help in trying 
to get this issue resolved. I have said before and I will say again that 
these are two different beasts; their internals are very different. The 
bug is with Orca, at-spi or the browser's a11y implementation, possibly 
even a combination of these things. I do know that Brave, which is a 
Chromium-based browser, seems to work a bit better with Docs and Sheets, 
but crashes on some sites, including the work site I mentioned. Firefox 
on the other hand tends to be a bit more sluggish, at least when 
presenting medium to large blocks of text, but it's mostly rock solid 
here. These are the bugs that need to be addressed, and saying that 
XYZOS doesn't have them won't help us here, especially when they use 
very hacky work-arounds to get past these bugs that you may not see, but 
that cannot be implemented here without causing worse problems.

~Kyle