Re: [orca-list] VoiceOver vs. Orca - An ignorant question

[Vojtech šmiro <vsmiro seznam cz>]

Hello,

I've worked with Mac eight years ago. But my Mac was broken and repair 
was too expensive, so I've bought older laptop in bazaar.

Nowadays, I am using linux for six years, but I have large problems with 
web sites. I have to work with some sites in my phone or in Cloud ready 
OS with Chromevox. So I am disappointed from Orca behavior on web sites 
and working with Libreoffice, but I know, there's only one developer to 
build Orca and Orca is opensource. So I work more with mobile, when I 
don't want to be angry with Orca on some websites. But linux is great 
for me and my privacy and safety of my files.

Best regards

Vojta.

Dne 22. 12. 21 v 16:51 John G. Heim via orca-list napsal(a):
> Man, as a guy who uses both VoiceOver and Orca all the time every day, I 
> sure don't think Voiceover works that much better than Orca. For one 
> thing, Linux/Orca will run on hardware that MacOS/VoiceOver totally 
> choke on. Years ago, my employer gave me a Macbook Pro. Over the years, 
> each operating system upgrade made it run slower and slowr until 
> eventually it was intolerable. Finally, my employer gave me a new 
> Macbook Pro for doing Zoom calls. But then I put Linux on the old 
> Macbook and you know what? Over the last few months, i have gradually 
> stopped using the new Macbook. I didn't even conciously do it but I just 
> prefer the old laptop with Linux and Orca to the new laptop with MacOS 
> and VoiceOver.
>
> I think what you mean is that Orca has way more glitches than VoiceOver. 
> Orca seems to have a lot of weird, small problems. And I might grant 
> that Orca hangs more often than VoiceOver. But Orca is way easier to use 
> than Voiceover. I even think that Thunderbird is superior to Mac Mail 
> and Firefox is superior to Safari. The designers for Mac Mail and Safari 
> assume everyone has a mouse. Sure, you usually can do stuff with the 
> keyboard but it's designed first for mouse users. Thunderbird and 
> Firefox were designed much more equally for oltime keyboard users. 
> That's who Linux users are, in large part. In MacOS, everything takes 
> too many key strokes.  Plus, in MacOS, there are places where you press 
> tab and then shift tab and you do **not* end up back where you were. 
> IMO, that should never happen.
>
> Orca never actually crashes for me. Pretty regularly, a few times every 
> day, it hangs. If you wait long enough, it comes back. Admittedly this 
> is a huge problem. I press alt+F2 and then type "orca --replace" several 
> times every day. But I just prefer that to the constant inconvenience of 
> VoiceOver. I mean, i'd rather be really annoyed 2 or 3 times a day than 
> constantly annoyed a little bit all day.
>
> On 12/22/21 05:29, Reece O'Bryan via orca-list wrote:
> > I tried to think of the nicest way to ask this without offending 
> > anyone on this list, but I can’t think of a way to ask my questions 
> > without either being unclear or slightly offensive, so here goes...
> >
> > Why is it that VoiceOver seems to work so much better than orca? I ask 
> > from a position of pure ignorance… is it as simple as Apple having $1 
> > T and not wanting an ADA lawsuit while Orca is a free project done by 
> > amazing volunteers? Is VoiceOver somehow integrated into Mac OS and 
> > Orca is working with further distance from the Linux kernel?
> >
> > My biggest problem with orca is that I somehow repeatedly make my 
> > system kill speech by doing very small things. If this happened with 
> > Mac OS and voiceover, then I can simply tell Siri to turn voiceover 
> > off and back on. With orca it seems as if when you kill speech, then 
> > you literally have killed it and it takes dramatic steps such as a 
> > restore or reinstall  to fix it. Wouldn’t it be easier to have a 
> > secondary, potentially even optional, process running in the 
> > background that only checks to see that speech is working with Orca 
> > and Wood restart Orca if it crashes?
> >
> > Maybe this is incorrect thinking. Is the problem that orca is running 
> > at or like software on the operating system instead of being a part of 
> > it like with macOS? Meaning an OS process should perform the check and 
> > fix of speech.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > -Reece O’Bryan
> > C: (502)-827-3724
> > 1645 Parkway, Sevierville, TN 37862
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html