Re: [orca-list] Does Orca use SSML tags other than speak and mark?

[Rastislav Kiss <rastislav kish gmail com>]

Unfortunately, it can't be fixed from interface, it must be done in
code. I don't know what is Orca's internal speech structure, whether
there's an interface to speech-dispatcher which is driven by respective
parts of code as needed, or if there is simply a channel accepting
speech requests, but anyway, the text of the document must go in either
as one, or as more bigger chunks, if it's too big.
The same goes for web, the easiest way how to elliminate breaks when
navigating by lines is to render a line to text first, and then send it
to synthesiser as a whole.

Best regards

Rastislav
V Sobota,  18. júl 2020 o 16:46 +0200, Arkadiusz Kozioł napísal(a):
> Hmm, but unfortunatelly i don't know how to fix it. I have selected 
> reading all by sentence in orca's preferences.
>
> W dniu 18.07.2020 o 16:44, Rastislav Kiss via orca-list pisze:
> > Yup, that's because of the line by line feeding. Synthesis starts
> > over
> > and over for each of them, plus Orca most likely puts in some delay
> > intentionally.
> > I think these delays should be made configurable, as for example on
> > web
> > they're... kind of disturbing.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Rastislav
> > V Sobota,  18. júl 2020 o 16:21 +0200, Arkadiusz Kozioł napísal(a):
> > > BUt not only intonation. Orca breaks when goes at the end  of
> > > line
> > > and
> > > switch to the next.
> > >
> > >
> > > W dniu 18.07.2020 o 15:55, Rastislav Kiss via orca-list pisze:
> > > > Hi there,
> > > > do you mean when reading the document with orca + semicolon?
> > > > Hmm, interesting, yes, it's quite buggy.
> > > > Unfortunately, this is Orca's problem, not Speech dispatcher's.
> > > >
> > > > Orca is feeding SD with speak requests for every line, what
> > > > causes
> > > > the
> > > > problem. The speech engine sees just one line in time, so it
> > > > can't
> > > > produce correct intonation.
> > > > Orca should instead pump-in the whole text in one speak
> > > > request, or
> > > > at
> > > > least one bigger chunk, if there is lot of it.
> > > > That way, the engine can see the context and intonate
> > > > correctly.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > >
> > > > Rastislav
> > > > V Sobota,  18. júl 2020 o 14:17 +0200, Arkadiusz Kozioł
> > > > napísal(a):
> > > > > Rastislav, can you try to fix the problem, which I described
> > > > > a
> > > > > long
> > > > > time
> > > > > ago? When orca reading a text and go to the next line, it's
> > > > > stopping
> > > > > and
> > > > > there is an intonation, which can be understandable as the
> > > > > end of
> > > > > sentence. Joanie sait me, that it is the speech dispatcher
> > > > > problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > W dniu 18.07.2020 o 00:59, Rastislav Kiss via orca-list
> > > > > pisze:
> > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > this question is perhaps primarily aimed for Orca
> > > > > > developers,
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > it's
> > > > > > related to the screenreader's internal working.
> > > > > > I'd like to ask, does Orca use SSMl tags other than speak
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > mark
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > sending messages to speech dispatcher?
> > > > > > I've tracked sd's pipe to find out what format does Orca
> > > > > > use,
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > sending speech requests. I have noticed one <speak> tag in
> > > > > > every
> > > > > > message, as well as <mark> tags for setting markings on the
> > > > > > spoken
> > > > > > text.
> > > > > > Except for these two, I didn't see any tags, even on places
> > > > > > where
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > could occur, for example when spelling or reading links.
> > > > > > Are there some I could possibly have missed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The reason why I'm asking is my new program, which I've
> > > > > > been
> > > > > > developing
> > > > > > during the last week or two. As hollidays are finally here,
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > wanted to
> > > > > > improve my language skills a bit, by learning Mandarin
> > > > > > Chinese.
> > > > > > However, espeak doesn't read chinese characters in neither
> > > > > > slovak
> > > > > > nor
> > > > > > English version, and Chinese version can't read even
> > > > > > english
> > > > > > text
> > > > > > properly due to pinyin, slovak is beyond any imagination. I
> > > > > > don't
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > about anything like Nvda's switchsynth for Orca (is there
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > centralized depository of Orca addons btw?), so I've
> > > > > > decided to
> > > > > > solve
> > > > > > the problem myself.
> > > > > > I've made my own speech-dispatcher module, which doesn't
> > > > > > contain
> > > > > > speech
> > > > > > synthesis on its own, but which is able to load other sd
> > > > > > modules
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > after receiving text to speak, split it to parts written in
> > > > > > various
> > > > > > alphabets, including latin and chinese and send the
> > > > > > respective
> > > > > > parts in
> > > > > > right time to right engine according to configuration.
> > > > > > Latin, chinese and cyrillic alphabets are supported right
> > > > > > now,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > others can be added very easily if needed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, the program works very nice, but one thing I really
> > > > > > didn't
> > > > > > want
> > > > > > to bother with was full SSML implementation, especially if
> > > > > > most
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > won't be ever used and would just slow-down the engine.
> > > > > > It seems to be ready for release, I have implemented speak
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > mark
> > > > > > tags to be handled properly, however if other tags occurred
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > speak request, such as <emphasis>, in unlucky-enough
> > > > > > situation,
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > could cause splitting the opening and ending of the tag to
> > > > > > various
> > > > > > engines, and would result in infinite loop.
> > > > > > That is something I'd like to prevent at all costs, as
> > > > > > working
> > > > > > speech
> > > > > > is crucial for us. Plus, as I saw today, an infinite loop
> > > > > > effectively
> > > > > > takes down not just the speech, but also the whole
> > > > > > screenreader,
> > > > > > so...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are there any other SSML tags used in Orca than <speak> and
> > > > > > <mark>?
> > > > > > Is
> > > > > > this situation likely to change in future?
> > > > > > SSML seems to be capable of dealing with various things
> > > > > > such as
> > > > > > spelling or emphasising text, but Orca seems to rather be
> > > > > > solving
> > > > > > them
> > > > > > on its own. That's the point of the second question,
> > > > > > whether
> > > > > > this
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > wanted or just temporary behavior until more complex SSML
> > > > > > rendering
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > created.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you in advance!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rastislav
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
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> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> _______________________________________________
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> GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html