Re: [orca-list] New window to write a new message in TB

[Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com>]

Hey Jean-Philippe.

So there are two issues here:

1. The braille issue -- which I've just fixed. The only label which is 
currently not presented correctly, in speech or in braille -- is the the 
one whose label is ">>". This seems to have a description, but for some 
reason Orca's not falling back on it. I'll look into that next.

2. The what-is-an-interactive-component issue. This has nothing to do 
with Orca or what it says or brailles or whatever.

Labels typically, well, label other things. They normally just sit 
there. Take the "From", "To", and "Subject" labels as examples. Visually 
they are to the left of their associated text fields. They tell you 
what you are expected to put in those text fields. That is their job. 
Their only job IMHO. (Yes, if you click on them, they also move focus to 
their associated field. But my guess is that most users don't click on 
those labels, because why bother when the thing you want is just to the 
right and also clickable?)

Taking a totally wild guess, which may be completely wrong: They are 
choosing to make Cc and Bcc interactive labels because visually it looks 
"cleaner". There's no "icky" underline or color change that would come 
from a link. There's no "icky" button border. And sighted users will see 
"Cc" and think "I want a Cc" and they'll click on it. And it works 
because they have click handlers. The same thing happened on the web 
with authors not using things like the button element or the link 
element and putting click handlers on divs and spans. That sort of thing 
is why we have ARIA: To communicate to assistive technologies what, 
functionally, that div or span is. Because if it acts like a button, 
being told it's a button is better than being told it's "clickable".

This is why I stated in my original reply to you "That said, an 
accessible role of label doesn't seem ideal." Emphasis on "accessible 
role". Under the hood they can do whatever they want to make it pretty. 
But perhaps they should consider a different role?

Related: When you're told by Orca it's a "label", how do you know what 
key to press? If it's a link, Enter should work. If it's a button, Space 
should work. Roles give hints about how to interact with the object in 
question.

Related #2: On these labels, Enter works but Space doesn't. Even if they 
don't change the role, perhaps they should consider also supporting 
Space being pressed when the label has focus. That reduces the need for 
keyboard users -- whether they use Orca or not -- to play the game of 
"guess that keystroke."

Hope this helps clarify things. I'm going back to working on their 
<strike>silly</strike> pretty ">>" label now. ;)

--joanie

On 1/24/20 10:27 AM, Jean-Philippe MENGUAL via orca-list wrote:
> Hi Joanie,
>
> Thanks for your reply. Could you explain me why "Labels are typically 
> not interactive button-like things"? Because here if I issue shift-tab I 
> hear the label name, if I press Enter it generates the new field (Cc, 
> Cci). So how can I explain to TB guys they should do a button instead of 
> a role of label?
>
> Many thanks for your help
>
> Regards
>
> signature_jp_2
> Logo Hypra      JEAN-PHILIPPE MENGUAL
> DIRECTEUR TECHNIQUE ET QUALITÉ
> 28, rue de la chapelle, 75018, Paris
> Tel : +339 72 49 76 75 <tel:+33972497675>
> <tel:+33676349337>
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>
>
> Le 24/01/2020 à 12:12, Jean-Philippe MENGUAL a écrit :
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thunderbird is migrating its window to compose messages. It seems to 
> > work all right. Now, we enter the destination address in To field, 
> > then press shift-tab to choose a new field (Cc, Cci, etc).
> >
> > These are labels. Orca speaks them but does not display in braille. Why?
> >
> > See the log:
> > http://demo.accelibreinfo.eu/debtb
> >
> > Should we request TB to switch these labels to buttons? Or is it 
> > without importance for Orca? What about braille?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > --
> > signature_jp_2
> > Logo Hypra      JEAN-PHILIPPE MENGUAL
> > DIRECTEUR TECHNIQUE ET QUALITÉ
> > 28, rue de la chapelle, 75018, Paris
> > Tel : +339 72 49 76 75 <tel:+33972497675>
> > <tel:+33676349337>
> > support hypra fr <mailto:support hypra fr>
> > www.hypra.fr <http://www.hypra.fr/>
> > Facebook Hypra <https://www.facebook.com/hyprasoftware/> Twitter Hypra 
> > <https://twitter.com/Hypra_> Linkedin Jean-Philippe 
> > <https://fr.linkedin.com/in/jean-philippe-mengual-800133135>
>
>
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