Re: [orca-list] Google Chrome: Navigating Gmail is unreliable
- From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com>
- To: Andy Borka <sonfire11 gmail com>, Orca List <orca-list gnome org>
- Subject: Re: [orca-list] Google Chrome: Navigating Gmail is unreliable
- Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 18:43:39 -0400
Hey Andy.
I made some changes in Orca master which will hopefully improve what you
describe re the page summary being announced and focus mode toggling off
and on.
When I use Chromium built today, the behavior is quite nice -- at least
in my environment. Now when I press return on the "gmail" link:
* Orca announces the page is loading
* Orca announces the newly-focused table row and its contents
* Orca announces focus mode
* You're good to start arrowing in the table of messages
i.e. essentially effortless.
When I use Chrome unstable, the situation for me is better than before
chattiness-wise but not yet as good as Chromium in terms of being
effortless:
* Orca announces the page is loading
* Orca announces load has completed
* Orca announces the page summary
* I have to press T for the table of messages
* I have to press Orca+A for focus mode
I'm not sure yet if the differences are something in my environment
between Chromium and Chrome unstable, or if it's a side effect of fixes
my colleagues and/or Google developers have recently made which haven't
yet made it to Chrome unstable.
If you're able to test a nightly snapshot of that would be cool.
Regardless, please let me know what you find.
Thanks!
--joanie
On 4/7/20 08:30, Andy Borka via orca-list wrote:
Hi,
Using Chrome unstable (83.0.4100.3) and Orca master, here are my
findings. When clicking the Gmail link found at www.google.com
<http://www.google.com>, Orca announces a new page is loading, gives the
summary of the page, announces that focus mode is on, repeats the page
summary, then turns focus mode off. To make sure I am on the message
list, I press the letter 't'. I then turn on focus mode and navigate the
message list. Pressing up and down arrows reliably navigates the row
summaries as you described. Pressing right arrow on a row reads each
column. Pressing right arrow beyond the table takes me to the folders
list and pressing left beyond the table takes me to the conversations
heading. Navigating back to the table works as you describe, but I can
no longer get the row summary as I press up/down arrow. Also, focus on
the row and orca's position in the table might be somewhat different.
For example, pressing down arrow to an email, leaving the table by
pressing right/left outside its scope, re entering the table, then
selecting a different email leaves focus on the email that was selected
before leaving the table's scope. This is also present when navigating
the rows by column. I have to left click the row to open it.
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 7:11 PM Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com
<mailto:jdiggs igalia com>> wrote:
Hi yet again.
I believe Orca master is doing better -- as best as it can -- with
navigating in Gmail. It should be less likely to bounce out of focus
mode unexpectedly. And it's handling the unwanted accessibility
events I
mentioned earlier by ignoring them.
As a result, where you land and what Orca says should, I believe, be
totally up to the browser and Gmail now. Which brings me to the
following:
When you arrow up and down in the message list we get a focus event for
the entire row and then Orca presents the entire row. If you then arrow
right to a column, subsequent presses of down cause us to get a focus
event for just the cell in that column. This, to me, is as it should
be.
But if you attempt to arrow past the right-most column and then down
arrow, the focus events we get resume being for the entire row. Orca
cannot control that. Thus it speaks the entire row. That behavior
should
go away if bugs 2 (Chromium) and 3 (Firefox) from my list below get
fixed in the browser so the final cell remains focused.
As I stated before, when you left arrow from the first column in the
message list, you wind up in the list of folders. This happens even
without Orca running and with caret browsing disabled. It is presumably
a deliberate feature of Gmail. Orca master now should keep you in focus
mode when this occurs, so you can always right arrow immediately
back to
the message list.
So.... Please give Orca master a spin with Gmail and let me know how
it's working now.
Thanks yet again. :)
--joanie
On 4/6/20 15:34, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
>
> Hi again Andy.
>
> The latest bug list for this is:
> 1. https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1068188
<https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1068188>
> 2. https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1068290
<https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1068290>
> 3. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1627783
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1627783>
>
> The latter two being the identical bug, one for Chromium and the
other
> for Firefox.
>
> I will see if I can catch and work around this condition in Orca.
In the
> meantime, for me things work as expected when caret browsing is
> disabled. In the case of Firefox, that's easy to do: Just press
F7. When
> I do that, Orca stays in the table when you Right Arrow.
>
> Unfortunately, it's less easy to disable caret browsing in Chromium
> because there is no quick toggle like F7:
> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1061955
<https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1061955>
>
> --joanie
>
> On 4/6/20 12:54, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
>> Hey Andy.
>>
>> Regarding what happens when you press Right Arrow in
Chrome/Chromium:
>> I just filed
>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1068188
<https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1068188>.
>> Something different may be happening in Firefox.
>>
>> Regarding what happens when you press Left Arrow: I tested what
>> happens in Gmail with both Firefox and with Chrome/Chromium,
both with
>> and without caret browsing enabled, and did so without Orca
running.
>> Under these conditions, one leaves the list of messages and
winds up
>> in the list of mail folders. Because this happens without Orca even
>> running, I do not see Orca's behavior as a failure to respect the
>> control boundaries.
>>
>> Lastly, in your original message you mentioned that sometimes Orca
>> doesn't say anything when arrowing left and right within the
table in
>> Chrome. You have a reliable way for me to reproduce that?
>>
>> Thanks again!
>> --joanie
>>
>> On 4/6/20 11:04, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
>>> Thanks Andy.
>>>
>>> I will start with the table-boundary issue you mentioned which
I can
>>> reproduce. And then let's go from there regarding some of the
other
>>> things you mentioned.
>>>
>>> --joanie
>>>
>>> On 4/6/20 10:58, Andy Borka via orca-list wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> After experimenting around with Chrome and Firefox, I discovered
>>>> that it happens with both browsers. Chrome is worse though. In
>>>> Firefox, go into a Gmail account. When you are in the Gmail
>>>> interface, turn on focus mode. Pressing up/down in the message
list
>>>> works as expected. However, pressing right/left will navigate
>>>> through the message columns such as from, subject, received.
If you
>>>> press right arrow beyond one of these columns, Orca jumps out of
>>>> focus mode and takes you to the top of the page. Sometimes it is
>>>> random places. I also noticed that Pressing right/left arrow
beyond
>>>> the point of an input control like a text field will eventually
>>>> leave focus mode and continue in browse mode. Chrome does the
same
>>>> thing, but in the message list, Orca will not consistently
read the
>>>> email summary (the table column that reads the status, from,
>>>> subject, and received in a single utterance) where in Firefox,
the
>>>> header summary is consistent. Make sure Firefox and Chrome custom
>>>> settings have navigate with caret on, automatic focus mode in
>>>> structural navigation off, and automatic focus mode with caret
>>>> navigation is off.
>>>>
>>>> To reproduce, do the following:
>>>> 1. Start Orca master.
>>>> 2. Start Firefox.
>>>> 3. Go into a Gmail account.
>>>> 4. In the message list, turn on focus mode.
>>>> 5. Navigate with up and down arrows.
>>>> 6. Navigate with left/right arrows. Be sure to exceede the column
>>>> count by pressing right/left arrow at the beginning/end of a row.
>>>> 7. Repeat with Chrome unstable (83.0.4100.3).
>>>>
>>>> Actual results: Firefox is more stable than Chrome, but both show
>>>> unreliable behavior with message list navigation by jumping
out of
>>>> the message list when trying to navigate beyond its boundaries.
>>>> Expected results: Orca should respect the control boundaries,
>>>> especially when manually enabling focus mode.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:29 AM Joanmarie Diggs
<jdiggs igalia com <mailto:jdiggs igalia com>
>>>> <mailto:jdiggs igalia com <mailto:jdiggs igalia com>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey Andy.
>>>>
>>>> So I think I am seeing what you are describing. To
confirm: Does
>>>> the
>>>> problem go away if you launch Chrome *without*
>>>> --enable-caret-browsing?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again!
>>>> --joanie
>>>>
>>>> On 4/6/20 10:05, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
>>>> > Hey Andy.
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks for the report. I'll take a look. In the
meantime, some
>>>> general
>>>> > questions:
>>>> >
>>>> > 1. Does this also happen in Firefox, or just with Chrome?
>>>> > 2. If it only happens in Chrome, any idea if this is a
>>>> regression? As
>>>> > you are aware, a few were recently introduced.
>>>> > 3. Any ideas how I can reliably reproduce the problem? For
>>>> instance,
>>>> > does it always happen with one particular message?
>>>> >
>>>> > --joanie
>>>> >
>>>> > On 4/5/20 13:27, Andy Borka via orca-list wrote:
>>>> >> Hi,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am using Orca master, Ubuntu 20.04, and Google Chrome
>>>> 83.0.4100.3.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Navigating the Gmail interface is unreliable at best.
Most
>>>> of the
>>>> >> time, the results of navigating are inconsistent, so it is
>>>> difficult
>>>> >> making a bug report. However, I will do my best to give
>>>> steps to
>>>> >> reproduce.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 1. Start Orca master.
>>>> >> 2. Start Google Chrome 83.0.4100.3 (currently
unstable dev).
>>>> >> 3. Go to www.gmail.com <http://www.gmail.com>
<http://www.gmail.com <http://www.gmail.com>>
>>>> <http://www.gmail.com <http://www.gmail.com>
<http://www.gmail.com <http://www.gmail.com>>> and sign in to an
>>>> account.
>>>> >> 4. Press t to jump to the table of emails.
>>>> >> 5. Press ORCA+A for focus mode.
>>>> >> 6. Press all 4 arrow keys.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Actual results: Sometimes Orca jumps out of focus
mode, other
>>>> times it
>>>> >> only reads a cell such as sender, date, or subject. Other
>>>> times it
>>>> >> does nothing. The main concern here is that it is
unreliable to
>>>> >> navigate, making it difficult to send/receive email.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Expected results: Orca should remain in focus mode when
>>>> navigating the
>>>> >> list of emails. Even if Google enabled the feature to
read
>>>> cell by
>>>> >> cell, Orca should not jump out of focus mode until I
tell it to
>>>> leave
>>>> >> focus mode.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> orca-list mailing list
>>>> >> orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
<mailto:orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>>
>>>> >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
<https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
>>>> <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
<https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>>
>>>> >> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
<https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
>>>> <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
<https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>>
>>>> >> Orca documentation:
https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
<https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
>>>> <https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
<https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>>
>>>> >> GNOME Universal Access guide:
>>>> >>
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
<https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
>>>> <https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
<https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > orca-list mailing list
>>>> > orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
<mailto:orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>>
>>>> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
<https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
>>>> <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
<https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>>
>>>> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
<https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
>>>> <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
<https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>>
>>>> > Orca documentation:
https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
<https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
>>>> <https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
<https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>>
>>>> > GNOME Universal Access guide:
>>>> >
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
<https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
>>>> <https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
<https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> orca-list mailing list
>>>> orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
<https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
>>>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
<https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
>>>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
<https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
>>>> GNOME Universal Access guide:
>>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
<https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> orca-list mailing list
>>> orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
<https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
>>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
<https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
>>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
<https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
>>> GNOME Universal Access guide:
>>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
<https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> orca-list mailing list
>> orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
<https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
<https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
<https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
>> GNOME Universal Access guide:
>> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
<https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
>
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
<https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
<https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
<https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
> GNOME Universal Access guide:
> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
<https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
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