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Re: [orca-list] Google Chrome: Navigating Gmail is unreliable

Hi yet again.
I believe Orca master is doing better -- as best as it can -- with navigating in Gmail. It should be less likely to bounce out of focus mode unexpectedly. And it's handling the unwanted accessibility events I mentioned earlier by ignoring them.
As a result, where you land and what Orca says should, I believe, be totally up to the browser and Gmail now. Which brings me to the following:
When you arrow up and down in the message list we get a focus event for the entire row and then Orca presents the entire row. If you then arrow right to a column, subsequent presses of down cause us to get a focus event for just the cell in that column. This, to me, is as it should be. But if you attempt to arrow past the right-most column and then down arrow, the focus events we get resume being for the entire row. Orca cannot control that. Thus it speaks the entire row. That behavior should go away if bugs 2 (Chromium) and 3 (Firefox) from my list below get fixed in the browser so the final cell remains focused.
As I stated before, when you left arrow from the first column in the message list, you wind up in the list of folders. This happens even without Orca running and with caret browsing disabled. It is presumably a deliberate feature of Gmail. Orca master now should keep you in focus mode when this occurs, so you can always right arrow immediately back to the message list.
So.... Please give Orca master a spin with Gmail and let me know how it's working now. 

Thanks yet again. :)
--joanie

On 4/6/20 15:34, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:


Hi again Andy.

The latest bug list for this is:
1. https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1068188
2. https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1068290
3. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1627783
The latter two being the identical bug, one for Chromium and the other for Firefox.
I will see if I can catch and work around this condition in Orca. In the meantime, for me things work as expected when caret browsing is disabled. In the case of Firefox, that's easy to do: Just press F7. When I do that, Orca stays in the table when you Right Arrow.
Unfortunately, it's less easy to disable caret browsing in Chromium because there is no quick toggle like F7: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1061955 

--joanie

On 4/6/20 12:54, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

Hey Andy.
Regarding what happens when you press Right Arrow in Chrome/Chromium: I just filed https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1068188. Something different may be happening in Firefox.
Regarding what happens when you press Left Arrow: I tested what happens in Gmail with both Firefox and with Chrome/Chromium, both with and without caret browsing enabled, and did so without Orca running. Under these conditions, one leaves the list of messages and winds up in the list of mail folders. Because this happens without Orca even running, I do not see Orca's behavior as a failure to respect the control boundaries.
Lastly, in your original message you mentioned that sometimes Orca doesn't say anything when arrowing left and right within the table in Chrome. You have a reliable way for me to reproduce that? 

Thanks again!
--joanie

On 4/6/20 11:04, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

Thanks Andy.
I will start with the table-boundary issue you mentioned which I can reproduce. And then let's go from there regarding some of the other things you mentioned. 

--joanie

On 4/6/20 10:58, Andy Borka via orca-list wrote:

Hi,
After experimenting around with Chrome and Firefox, I discovered that it happens with both browsers. Chrome is worse though. In Firefox, go into a Gmail account. When you are in the Gmail interface, turn on focus mode. Pressing up/down in the message list works as expected. However, pressing right/left will navigate through the message columns such as from, subject, received. If you press right arrow beyond one of these columns, Orca jumps out of focus mode and takes you to the top of the page. Sometimes it is random places. I also noticed that Pressing right/left arrow beyond the point of an input control like a text field will eventually leave focus mode and continue in browse mode. Chrome does the same thing, but in the message list, Orca will not consistently read the email summary (the table column that reads the status, from, subject, and received in a single utterance) where in Firefox, the header summary is consistent. Make sure Firefox and Chrome custom settings have navigate with caret on, automatic focus mode in structural navigation off, and automatic focus mode with caret navigation is off. 

To reproduce, do the following:
1. Start Orca master.
2. Start Firefox.
3. Go into a Gmail account.
4. In the message list, turn on focus mode.
5. Navigate with up and down arrows.
6. Navigate with left/right arrows. Be sure to exceede the column count by pressing right/left arrow at the beginning/end of a row. 
7. Repeat with Chrome unstable (83.0.4100.3).
Actual results: Firefox is more stable than Chrome, but both show unreliable behavior with message list navigation by jumping out of the message list when trying to navigate beyond its boundaries. Expected results: Orca should respect the control boundaries, especially when manually enabling focus mode.
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 10:29 AM Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com <mailto:jdiggs igalia com>> wrote: 

    Hey Andy.
    So I think I am seeing what you are describing. To confirm: Does the     problem go away if you launch Chrome *without* --enable-caret-browsing? 

    Thanks again!
    --joanie

    On 4/6/20 10:05, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
     > Hey Andy.
     >
     > Thanks for the report. I'll take a look. In the meantime, some
    general
     > questions:
     >
     > 1. Does this also happen in Firefox, or just with Chrome?
     > 2. If it only happens in Chrome, any idea if this is a regression? As 
     >     you are aware, a few were recently introduced.
     > 3. Any ideas how I can reliably reproduce the problem? For instance, 
     >     does it always happen with one particular message?
     >
     > --joanie
     >
     > On 4/5/20 13:27, Andy Borka via orca-list wrote:
     >> Hi,
     >>
     >> I am using Orca master, Ubuntu 20.04, and Google Chrome 83.0.4100.3. 
     >>
     >> Navigating the Gmail interface is unreliable at best. Most of the 
     >> time, the results of navigating are inconsistent, so it is
    difficult
     >> making a bug report. However, I will do my best to give steps to 
     >> reproduce.
     >>
     >>  1. Start Orca master.
     >>  2. Start Google Chrome 83.0.4100.3 (currently unstable dev).
     >>  3. Go to www.gmail.com <http://www.gmail.com>
    <http://www.gmail.com <http://www.gmail.com>> and sign in to an account. 
     >>  4. Press t to jump to the table of emails.
     >>  5. Press ORCA+A for focus mode.
     >>  6. Press all 4 arrow keys.
     >>
     >> Actual results: Sometimes Orca jumps out of focus mode, other
    times it
     >> only reads a cell such as sender, date, or subject. Other times it 
     >> does nothing. The main concern here is that it is unreliable to
     >> navigate, making it difficult to send/receive email.
     >>
     >> Expected results: Orca should remain in focus mode when
    navigating the
     >> list of emails. Even if Google enabled the feature to read cell by 
     >> cell, Orca should not jump out of focus mode until I tell it to
    leave
     >> focus mode.
     >>
     >>
     >> _______________________________________________
     >> orca-list mailing list
     >> orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
     >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
    <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
     >> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
    <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
     >> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
    <https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
     >> GNOME Universal Access guide:
     >> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
    <https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
     >>
     >
     > _______________________________________________
     > orca-list mailing list
     > orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
     > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
    <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
     > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
    <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
     > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
    <https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
     > GNOME Universal Access guide:
     > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
    <https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
     >


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Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
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_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html 

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html 

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
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