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Re: [orca-list] Regression: Orca says "no focus" on Thunderbird when opening a mail

What's being loaded if an app is inaccessible? "Loading" implies that something will eventually finish, which isn't the case if an app will never present anything. 


On 09/13/2018 12:06 PM, bittukumar jaiswal via orca-list wrote:

Hello all!
I red hole conversation and I came to a solution.
instead of saying: no focus
it should say: loding
--
Best regards,
Bittukumar Jaiswal
Business development associate
Innovision
E-Mail: bittukjaiswal gmail com
web: www.innovisiontech.co
Mumbai India.

On 9/13/18, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com> wrote:

The lack of focus will still be logged; just not spoken.
--joanie

On 09/13/2018 11:13 AM, Jace Kattalakis via orca-list wrote:

Just sticking my head in to say this is sorted out in the latest
committ, the message is gone...though question, does it still capture to
a log without a message, assuming I don't have a debug log? If not would
that even be a good idea?


On 13/09/18 14:12, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:

Alex: Inaccessible applications do not tell Orca that keys were pressed.
If Orca doesn't know a key is pressed, it cannot perform the command. If
you are in an accessible application and Orca doesn't respond to
keyboard shortcuts, please capture a full debug.out so that I can take a
look. Thanks!
--joanie

On 09/13/2018 09:07 AM, Alex ARNAUD wrote:

Thanks Joanie for this change.

Just to be sure, are we OK that if Orca thinks it's in an inaccessible
application users will be able to quit Orca or use Orca keyboard
shortcuts? It's the side-effect I see if Orca is more intelligent to
detect inaccessible application.

Best regards,
Alex.

Le 13/09/2018 à 14:03, Joanmarie Diggs a écrit :

I've just removed the message. The problem is that if I increase the
timeout sufficiently to insure it's 100% accurate, most users will have
decided Orca is not going to say anything and something must be wrong.
At that point, they'll likely Alt+Tab or get into the run dialog or
something. <insert shrug here>

On 09/13/2018 07:06 AM, Nolan Darilek wrote:

In all honesty, the "no focus" alerts are pretty much spurious
noise for
me. Every app I use is accessible, and I get this alert all the time,
usually when alt-tabbing between windows. I tune it out at this point,
so if an app is inaccessible, my first clue to that will likely be
that
I can't interact with it, not that I heard "No focus" in this instance
and thought "Ah, *this* 1 in 10 thousandth time is accurate." :)


I'd suggest either removing it entirely, or setting the timer insanely
high. I can't see a timer being reliable across an entire hardware
lineup spanning decades, and especially since in my experience
accessibility performance seems to degrade if I don't reboot every
week
or so. So you have variability not only in hardware, but in
performance
on the same hardware at day 1 of uptime vs. day 8 of uptime. What we
seem to have now is an alert with a very high false positive rate that
makes it non-helpful.


On 09/13/2018 04:56 AM, Jace Kattalakis via orca-list wrote:

Hey Joany, I was doing some experimenting since I was bored and at
least from my basic testing I do think the timer before Orca says no
focus needs to be longer, since if I open the Brisk menu it says no
focus then immediately once Orca's done speaking, it acts as if the
menu's in focus. Is the timer hardware related, as it happens more on
my older and slower desktop system, than my faster laptop so just
wondering if there's any truth to the whole idea that the timer's
hardware specific or not


On 13/09/18 09:07, Alex ARNAUD wrote:

Hello Joanie,

Do you plan to fix this or revert this for 3.30?

Another user impact is when Orca thinks you're in on a inaccessible
application it seems no Orca command works. In my situation it's the
command to turned off Orca. I often have to do alt+tab to be able to
close Orca.

Best regards,
Alex.

Le 07/09/2018 à 13:11, Joanmarie Diggs a écrit :

Saying "no focus" was added so that when you wind up in a place
that is
not accessible, Orca says something rather than nothing. There's a
delay
built in to wait in case something is about to claim focus,
perhaps it
needs to be longer.

--joanie

On 09/07/2018 06:25 AM, Alex ARNAUD wrote:

Hello all,

Environment:
- Debian Stretch with an upgraded a11y stack
- Orca master
- Thunderbird 52.9.1, mail are opened in a separate window in my
Thunderbird configuration

This issue is not easy to reproduce, what I've seen is when you're
opening a mail sometime Orca says "no focus". I don't
understand why
Orca says that right now, in 3.28 this issue doesn't happen.

Steps I've done with a mail I've encounter the issue:
1) Open the mail, move the caret at the top of the mail
2) Directly close the mail with ctrl+w
3) Open the mail with the return key

I've generated a debug out:
https://framabin.org/p/?4398c7b95cf25769#ClvXDHLQxjn24Q2cGVsATptkBdcc5D71jTmmg6IlNbQ=





Best regards.

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Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
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