Re: [orca-list] linux full time

[Burt Henry <burt1iband gmail com>]

No  feathers ruffled here, and just for the record for those who do not 
know I have many fewer years of computer use under my belt than you do 
although I am almost twice your age.
I was half way joking, although the truth at the core I still stand by, 
i.e many people I know who use windows, most sighted, a few screenreader 
using blinks, use their desktop and or start menu for launching aps. 
They are more  likely to use the search box for looking for files perhaps, 
but point is they like seeing program lists, and would appreciate the 
categorized view that Linux's "olderschool" interfaces generally provide.
I was trying to take  mopre than one side of the discussion in my overly 
verbose post, and get that ppl probably stopped paying attention before I 
was finished.
Anyway, as I mentioned my main approach for accessing aps and even my most 
used folders is with a consistent set of keybindings I have little skin in 
the game in the search vs. menu discussion/game. 
There are things I like and dislike about each of the most accessible 
Linux desktops. 
Back to the original point: of course choosing fromj a somewhat self 
organizing list was the next "thing" after human readable cli clis, just 
saying that they still work great, and for many do not feel tired or 
clunky.
When I started using modern computers vista was already out, and although 
I never used it for more than an odd session here and there, I'm certainly 
not just someone set in my 1990s or 2000s ways.
I only gotg my toes wet in dos, skipped every windows till XP, and really 
only have xp and win7 experience on that side of the isle as it were. 
I certainly did gnome2, but dove right in to unity till I was as 
comfortable with it as anything else, and only went full speed ahead with 
my custom keybindings and very lightweight guis in the last couple of 
years.
The ability to choose it where it's at/viva Linux! 
   



-- 
B. Henry

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Alex Midence wrote:
    06/05/2016 at 22:26

AMOK, since I have clearly unwittingly ruffled feathers with last decade comment, I want to explain what I 
meant. It simply means what it says. It is an interface common 10 years ago. If you grew up during that time, 
you are used to it. If you grew up during this decade, chances are, you will find cumbersome.  Also, if you 
are coming from the Newer forms of windows, interfaces such as unity and Gnome will be closer to what you're 
used to.  Me, I grew up during the late 80s and early 90s.   That means I find commandline quite comfortable. 
Gives me warm fuzzies.  Makes me nostalgic for the days of shell accounts and BBSs. Some of you may never 
have even heard of such things. All the rage back then until people started hearing about this thing called 
the Internet. Good old CLI!   That would be the interface of three decades ago! 
AM
AMBest in gavel-free regards,
AMAlex M
AM
AMSent from my iPhone
AM
AM> On May 6, 2016, at 8:01 PM, kendell clark <coffeekingms gmail com> wrote:
AM> 
AM> hi
AM> I second this. Burt is right. Linux is about choice. There is no right
AM> or wrong way to do things. My way might be just right for you or it
AM> might be terrible and inefficient, it all depends on a number of things,
AM> not the least of which is how you grew up using computers. I grew up
AM> back when win 2k was new, so mate's approach makes much more sense to me
AM> but I can and have used gnome with little problems. I'd like to applaud
AM> whoever's idea it was to finally add "signal strength" and "secure" info
AM> to network manager's applet, this has been something that only unity
AM> could do until very recently. Extremely handy. Last decade's interface
AM> is just judgemental. By that logic, anyone who's using windows 7 or xp
AM> is to be castigated for not "getting with the program" and "using what
AM> everyone else uses." Some people use older versions of windows for
AM> perfectly valid reasons, just like people like mate or standalone window
AM> managers like ratpoison and fluxbox. People have different tastes for a
AM> reason and it's only enormous pressure by companies that get people to
AM> all use the same things. Windows and mac don't have as broad a choice of
AM> desktops. Sometimes they have programs that linux does not, but the
AM> interface you get is what you're stuck with. You can customize it, to a
AM> point, but you can't download a completely different desktop and use it,
AM> and even if you could, it likely wouldn't be accessible.
AM> Thanks
AM> Kendell Clark
AM> 
AM> 
AM> Burt Henry wrote:
AM>> Although the mate experience is not as good as I have had it is still 
AM>> usable on latest vinux, and I mentioned it specifically because one can 
AM>> choose between gnome, mate and unity. 
AM>> Having them all on the same O
AM>> S/hardware gives one as level a playing field as could be wished for. 
AM>> As Alex says, there are reasons people like one approach much more than 
AM>> another. 
AM>> I personally have little trouble adapting to either search driven or menu 
AM>> drive environments, and what ever I am going to use for more than an hour 
AM>> or two will get customized so that I am not using either the menus or 
AM>> search field for the aps where I spend 90% of my time. 
AM>> All modern linux desktops make it pretty esy to extremely easy to 
AM>> configure keyboard shoertcuts, so I take advantage of this.
AM>> I use almost all the same shortcuts no matter which distro/desktop I am 
AM>> using. 
AM>> I remember Alex saying he does not want to spend the time to set up the 
AM>> shortcuts, and typing in a few letters to launch programs works for him. 
AM>> Spending a few minutes to set up hotkeys saves me lots of time ofver 
AM>> months and years of use, so I can't not work that way. 
AM>> The point of rehashing this is that Linux gives one a wide range of ways 
AM>> of doing most things, both on the interface level, i.e. how we choose to 
AM>> interact with our computers and on how things are actually done  "under 
AM>> the hood". 
AM>> While some distros do try and please most folks, sometimes cutting corners 
AM>> with configurability in doing so, others let the user control almost any 
AM>> detail of the system one can think of. 
AM>> I personally like the middle ground, i.e. give me the option to customize 
AM>> as much as possible, but when defaults really are likely to please the 
AM>> vast majority of folks, go on  and provide them. 
AM>> If I have to single out one thing wrong with gnome it is the lack of 
AM>> customization . It is not bad perhaps by windows or apple standards, but 
AM>> is not what itcould be, nor what it was.
AM>> I will take  a bit of issue with the tone of  
AM>> "last decade's interface", as it implies that something that was not 
AM>> developed this year is somehow suspect or infirior.  By that logic we 
AM>> should all be using voice commands or at least touch screens, and I 
AM>> certainly would not want to be "stuck" with just those.
AM>> I am not knowcking the index and search approach, but just a reminder, for 
AM>> machines with limited processor speed and memory you are using a lot of 
AM>> system resources that could be better spent on actual completion of 
AM>> productive work. 
AM>> Gnome is quite efficient these days however, and fair to "average" 
AM>> hhardware can run it pretty well in most cases. 
AM>> Unity is a bit more resource hungry, but many people like it as it has 
AM>> something akin to a startmenu in the launcher, and I find some of the 
AM>> indicators quite nice. 
AM>> Gnome's top panel is sparce by comparison, but quite nice when one wants 
AM>> to quickly adjust sound volume, screen brightness or switch network 
AM>> connections. 
AM>> Mate needs a bit of customization from how it comes for best 
AM>> accessibility, but it's menus are rather well designed, certainly much 
AM>> more efficient than windows in my opinion, i.e. they are indeed almost the 
AM>> same as has been used for a decade back from when gnome 2.x was new. Mate 
AM>> has been and is being reworked beneath the interface however, and the fact 
AM>> that it'smenus have been around so long says something, many people like 
AM>> them the way they are!
AM>> There is no right or wrong answer as to what is the best graphical 
AM>> desktop, and again I  speakup for the commandline options which round out 
AM>> modern Linux, again with something that has been around for quite some 
AM>> time, talking 3 decades more or less. You can also define some keyboard 
AM>> short cuts that work on the commandline, and I use some of these daily. I 
AM>> prefer a commandline email client for most of my emailing, and my basic 
AM>> research is done in textbased browsers, but thanks to great work by Jonaie 
AM>> orca now works with firefox as well as NVDA works with it in windows.
AM>> I should never comment in this type of conversation as there is just too 
AM>> much to say. The good part of it is that most of what I can think of to 
AM>> say is good.
AM>> Enjoy what ever  you choose, and try a number of things instead of trying 
AM>> to go on what I or someone else writes. 
AM>> I am using a graphical environment that is very different from what all 
AM>> but a handfull of folks reading this use, or have even tried for that 
AM>> matter. 
AM>> 
AM>> 
AM>> 
AM>> 
AM>> 
AM>> 
AM>> _______________________________________________
AM>> orca-list mailing list
AM>> orca-list gnome org
AM>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
AM>> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
AM>> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
AM>> GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
AM>> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
AM> 
AM> _______________________________________________
AM> orca-list mailing list
AM> orca-list gnome org
AM> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
AM> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
AM> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
AM> GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
AM> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
AM_______________________________________________
AMorca-list mailing list
AMorca-list gnome org
AMhttps://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
AMOrca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
AMOrca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
AMGNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
AMLog bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
AM