Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps

[Majid Hussain <mhussaincov93 gmail com>]

hi there,
wow! this topic has got the fires burning a?
my thoughts,
panning progress bar updates sounds like a good idear to me, so for
example when the beep is dead senter, you know that your opperation is
halfway done.
the beeps could be a tad more higher piched like NVDA's beeping tones,
at present I can just about tell when the first beep goes off, because
I find it too lo.
have we discussed independant volume controlls of the beeps?
could be usefull in a bizzy enviroment where you can ajust them
so the bottom line, I find the progress bar updates using the beeps useful.

thanks,
Majid Hussain

On 29/06/2016, B. Henry <burt1iband gmail com> wrote:
> Of course it would be more work, but if having a 2nd scheme means that a
> significant number of users can take advntage of a feature that would
> otherwise be
> useless for them, or if not useless then much harder to use, athen a 2nd
> scheme would be worth it.
> The ide of changing volume however seems like it would not work well for
> anyone in the real world, and even in special cases would not work for many
> people.
> This is of course just my opinion, and perhaps this sounds good to many of
> you. If so I'd suggest serious testing under varied conditions to see if
> what
> seems to be actually is.
> I suspect most will find it does not work so well in practice as they think
> it would.
>
>
> --
>      B.H.
>    Registerd Linux User 521886
>
>
>   Peter Vágner wrote:
> Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 06:26:27PM +0200
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I don't like fading here.
> > Imagine you are also listening to music or performing a say all in another
> > app. You may easily lost track on what's going on.
> > With multiple audible schemes we are cluttering orca with unnecessary
> > options.
> > More options means more burden for the developers and maintainers not
> > because of one time implementation related work but because of potentially
> > increased support requests flows related to the multiple configuration
> > possibilities.
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> > Dňa 29. júna 2016 18:20:12 používateľ Fernando Botelho
> > <Fernando Botelho F123 org> napísal:
> >
> > > Wow, interesting idea. Volume reduction to zero could be a nice option.
> > >
> > >
> > > F
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 06/29/2016 12:10 PM, chrys87 web de wrote:
> > > > I think belling two beeps is too much beeping around XD.
> > > > The octave ting is not interesring to non musicals. I tested it
> > > > months ago with my girl. She didnt recogniced big differences.
> > > >
> > > > I think more helpful is panning or an other idea is to bell alwas
> > > > the same Frequenzy that just get more quite. So you know how far the
> > > > beep is away from muting.
> > > >
> > > > Am Mi. Juni 29 18:21:35 2016 GMT+0300 schrieb Janina Sajka:
> > > > > At the risk of suddently sending far too many emails on this topic,
> > > > > let
> > > > > me try my own answer out on you ...
> > > > >
> > > > > I think he's saying, I know I'm saying ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Speaking is a second class choice. There's a richer, less invasive
> > > > > choice that will communicate intuitively even to people who can't
> > > > > explain why it communicates intuitively.
> > > > >
> > > > > It means mapping a seris of musical intervals to a set of defined
> > > > > percentage complete settings, e.g.
> > > > >
> > > > > An arbitrary set for purposes of elucidation ...
> > > > >
> > > > > 20% e-c
> > > > > 40% f-c
> > > > > 60% g-c
> > > > > 80% a-c
> > > > > 90% b-c
> > > > > 100% c-c
> > > > >
> > > > > The letter pitches are not important. The relationship from the
> > > > > first to
> > > > > second would clearly need to be provided as specific Hz values.
> > > > >
> > > > > I feel I should attach an mp3 or something. Trust me, it works!
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Joanmarie Diggs writes:
> > > > > > Hey Fernando.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm a little confused. Are you saying that instead of speaking
> > > > > > progress
> > > > > > bar percentages via speech-dispatcher (which Orca has done for
> > > > > > many
> > > > > > years), Orca should instead speak them via espeak? Or are you
> > > > > > saying
> > > > > > that Orca isn't speaking progress bars? If the latter, and if
> > > > > > you're
> > > > > > sure that you have that setting enabled and have selected an
> > > > > > appropriate
> > > > > > interval and source (all, current app, current window), then that
> > > > > > sounds
> > > > > > like a bug to me and I'd like specific steps to reproduce the
> > > > > > problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > --joanie
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 06/29/2016 09:46 AM, Fernando Botelho wrote:
> > > > > > > I remember hearing progress beeps on NVDA and also being pretty
> > > > > > > lost, as
> > > > > > > i did not know how high they were supposed to go.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I wish both Orca and NVDA could give just a percentage via
> > > > > > > espeak, or if
> > > > > > > beeping is a must, then alternate between current stage and
> > > > > > > final beep.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So if final beep were 400hz., then beep alternating 300hz 400hz,
> > > > > > > 310hz
> > > > > > > 400hz, 320hz 400hz, 330hz 400hz, and so forth.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Fernando
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 06/29/2016 10:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
> > > > > > > > I’d like progress beeps that pan from left to right instead of
> > > > > > > > using
> > > > > > > > pitch, because most of the time I don’t know exactly how high
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > pitch goes.
> > > > > > > > Sent from my Mac.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Devin Prater
> > > > > > > > r d t prater gmail com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Jun 29, 2016, at 8:23 AM, Peter Vágner
> > > > > > > > > <pvdeejay gmail com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have looked at the issue you have linked to and I am
> > > > > > > > > somewhat
> > > > > > > > > shocked that Nolan's patch has been put aside with somewhat
> > > > > > > > > disrespectfull attitude.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To us non musicians or not very sensitive to individual
> > > > > > > > > tones it
> > > > > > > > > might appear as something what may not be needed however I
> > > > > > > > > know some
> > > > > > > > > people who might really benefit from having clean
> > > > > > > > > predictable like
> > > > > > > > > implementation Nolan has suggested.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can you Chrys and Joanie get back to that please and
> > > > > > > > > reconsider it?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Greetings
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 29.06.2016 at 11:55 chrys87 web de
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:chrys87 web de> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Joanie, Hi List,
> > > > > > > > > >    I did some finetuning on the progressbar beeps caused
> > > > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > > userrequests.
> > > > > > > > > > You could find them attached on that ticket:
> > > > > > > > > > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758328
> > > > > > > > > > <https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758328>
> > > > > > > > > >    I made two changes:
> > > > > > > > > > 1. make the beeps more short.
> > > > > > > > > > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330508
> > > > > > > > > > <https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330508>
> > > > > > > > > >    2. Ignore Interval for the beeps. That only make sense
> > > > > > > > > > for Output
> > > > > > > > > > that needs "time to present". People like to activate
> > > > > > > > > > both; Beeps
> > > > > > > > > > for an progess gues, the voice/ braile output for precise
> > > > > > > > > > information in big intervals.
> > > > > > > > > > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330509
> > > > > > > > > > <https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330509>
> > > > > > > > > >    What does others think about that here?
> > > > > > > > > > cheers chrys
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > orca-list gnome org <mailto:orca-list gnome org>
> > > > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list>
> > > > > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > > > > <https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca>
> > > > > > > > > > Orca documentation:
> > > > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > > > > <https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/>
> > > > > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > > > > > <https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html>
> > > > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > > > > > > <http://bugzilla.gnome.org/>
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > > > Orca documentation:
> > > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina Sajka,  Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
> > > > >                        sip:janina asterisk rednote net
> > > > >                Email:  janina rednote net
> > > > >
> > > > > Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:      http://a11y.org
> > > > >
> > > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative
> > > > > (WAI)
> > > > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures       http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.or
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > orca-list mailing list
> > > orca-list gnome org
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list gnome org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide:
> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org