Re: [orca-list] Changes/ finetuning for Progressbar Beeps



Letting computer engineers pick frequencies for beeps is perhaps my
number one top peeve about computers.

I would even argue that tuning the world's electricity grids to 60Hz (or
50Hz U.K.) his a profound cultural disservice that has been too little
explored. It puts the electrical grid almost precisely on the
quarter-tone of standard musical tuning.

Of course standard musical tuning is a recent historical artifact itself
unknown to J.S. Bach, or even to Mozart and Beethoven.

All this to say that I strongly support Darilek's point, and ask for an
"in tune" presentation, not arbitrary choices that divide by 10 evenly.

Yes, musical pitch isn't linear. It's geometric, i.e. the octave above
is 2xHz, and the octave above that is 4xHz.

Janina


Nolan Darilek writes:
For my patch, you don't necessarily need to know the musical notes, but I
think perceptually it's easier to grasp an octave range than it is to grasp
the current arbitrary way things are now. You can't just pick out frequency
numbers and scale things linearly between them, because a) that's not how
our perception of sound works and b) I'd venture that fewer folks know what
4000 Hz sounds like vs. an octave, even if they don't know what an octave
is. I've heard NVDA's progress beeps hundreds of times, but even so I still
don't know what frequency they end on and what that sounds like. Can't speak
to Orca's anymore because I've forked it with my patch applied.


On 06/29/2016 09:39 AM, Fernando Botelho wrote:
Sorry Joanie. i did not express myself clearly enough.

I like percentages as they are, and having the beeping option is
probably nice, but not at the cost of losing those percentages. So all
is well with the way Orca speaks progress updates now; granted I should
give it a try as I have not downloaded anyhthing in a while.

But the focus  of my email was the fact that music terminology means
nothing to the vast majority of people; so it would be nice to have
aolternating beeps. It was just a suggestion.

It would be nice if we all knew what C sounds like, but unfortunately
this is not the case.

Fernando


On 06/29/2016 11:23 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
Hey Fernando.

I'm a little confused. Are you saying that instead of speaking progress
bar percentages via speech-dispatcher (which Orca has done for many
years), Orca should instead speak them via espeak? Or are you saying
that Orca isn't speaking progress bars? If the latter, and if you're
sure that you have that setting enabled and have selected an appropriate
interval and source (all, current app, current window), then that sounds
like a bug to me and I'd like specific steps to reproduce the problem.

Thanks!
--joanie

On 06/29/2016 09:46 AM, Fernando Botelho wrote:
I remember hearing progress beeps on NVDA and also being pretty
lost, as
i did not know how high they were supposed to go.

I wish both Orca and NVDA could give just a percentage via
espeak, or if
beeping is a must, then alternate between current stage and final beep.

So if final beep were 400hz., then beep alternating 300hz 400hz, 310hz
400hz, 320hz 400hz, 330hz 400hz, and so forth.

Best,

Fernando


On 06/29/2016 10:36 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
I’d like progress beeps that pan from left to right instead of using
pitch, because most of the time I don’t know exactly how high the
pitch goes.
Sent from my Mac.

Devin Prater
r d t prater gmail com



On Jun 29, 2016, at 8:23 AM, Peter Vágner <pvdeejay gmail com> wrote:

Hello,


I have looked at the issue you have linked to and I am somewhat
shocked that Nolan's patch has been put aside with somewhat
disrespectfull attitude.


To us non musicians or not very sensitive to individual tones it
might appear as something what may not be needed however I know some
people who might really benefit from having clean predictable like
implementation Nolan has suggested.


Can you Chrys and Joanie get back to that please and reconsider it?


Greetings


Peter




On 29.06.2016 at 11:55 chrys87 web de <mailto:chrys87 web de> wrote:
Hi Joanie, Hi List,
   I did some finetuning on the progressbar beeps caused by
userrequests.
You could find them attached on that ticket:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758328
<https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758328>
   I made two changes:
1. make the beeps more short.
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330508
<https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330508>
   2. Ignore Interval for the beeps. That only make sense for Output
that needs "time to present". People like to activate both; Beeps
for an progess gues, the voice/ braile output for precise
information in big intervals.
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330509
<https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=330509>
   What does others think about that here?
cheers chrys


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Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide:
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
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Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

-- 

Janina Sajka,   Phone:  +1.443.300.2200
                        sip:janina asterisk rednote net
                Email:  janina rednote net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:       http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures        http://www.w3.org/wai/apa



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