Re: [orca-list] Ubuntu Touch/phone

[John Heim <john johnheim net>]

Kendell, if users who refuse to recognize the deficiencies in their 
operating system of choice is going to stop you from using that 
operating system, then you are going to have to give up computers entirely.



On 09/23/2015 08:34 AM, kendell clark wrote:
> hi
> You seem to be the exception. When I speak of the apple culture, I'm
> speaking of the fans who absolutely refuse to acknowledge and
> deficiencies or bugs in their product of choice. If I'd had that kind of
> experience, I might've used an iPhone. Since I never have, and can't
> afford one anyway, I'm happy with my flip phone and my sonar linux
> distro. I don't know that my open source principals would allow me to
> use one in any case without feeling like a hipocrit, so that's probably
> not going to be an option. As for android, you're absolutely correct.
> All that you said used to be necessary. You used to have to have to
> download special blink products just to use the thing. I don't think
> it's the case anymore, but google really should have done better. That
> they didn't shows how much priority they give accessibility. However,
> apple is not altruistic. They don't make accessibility better because
> they care. They make money from it, plus they get tons of press and
> praise from all the fawning blind agencies. FOr me, the motivation
> behind why someone does something is almost as important, sometimes more
> important than the thing itself.
> Thanks
> Kendell clark
>
>
> On 09/23/2015 08:25 AM, Alex Midence wrote:
> > I get that you are bitter but, you need to be objective about some of these things.  Apple is respected for 
> > its accomplishments in accessibility for good reason.  The experience is stable and intuitive.  It ought to 
> > be.  You pay out the nose for it.  I had an android device once.  The a11y on it was so broken I couldn't 
> > even hang up on someone when I was done with the call.  The browser experience was horrible unless you went 
> > out and got a special browser put out by a blind products developer.  Same with the e-mail.  Even then, you 
> > didn't have full functionality.  Calendar?  No way, totally busted.  I understand there has been some 
> > improvement since then but I will never forget the huge letdown I experienced when I bought my Android phone. 
> >  What made it even worse is that the accessibility solution was thought up and implemented by an actual blind 
> > developer.  And the learning curve just to use the device?  Insane!  I must've spent like two days just 
> > trying to figure out how
>    the stup
> id thing worked.  Who in the world has time for such nonsense?  I even had to get a special dialer to make 
> calls, the most basic of functions for a phone.  I had it for a few months so, I did get decently proficient 
> at using it but was never truly happy with it.  I wound up losing it one day which turned out to be a 
> wonderful thing.
> > Enter my iPhone.  I did have to get sighted assistance to turn on the accessibility features.  From there, though, I 
> > was browsing the web, e-mailing, setting up my calendar, texting, chatting, skyping and playing music in no time.  No 
> > special browser, e-mail client or dialer needed.  You used the built-in stuff right out of the box.  The same stuff 
> > everyone else used, I used.  Now, I don't know what you mean when you say you don't like the "Apple culture" 
> > or anything but, these people won my business fair and square.  They created a product I could use right out of the box 
> > easily, intuitively and efficiently with a minimum of frustration.  I even have a toggle switch to turn my special 
> > software off and pass the thing to one of my kids for them to play games on.  The idea of being able to share my 
> > technology with sighted members of my family was unheard of to me when I was younger.
> >
> > If a touch phone using Ubuntu can give that kind of experience, I'm all for it.  I think it's a long way away 
> > from it though.
> >
> > My two cents,
> > Alex M
> >
> >
> >   
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: orca-list [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On Behalf Of kendell clark
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 6:45 AM
> > To: Dennis Westphal
> > Cc: Orca-list
> > Subject: Re: [orca-list] Ubuntu Touch/phone
> >
> > hi
> > Dennis, I couldn't have said it better myself. Accessibility is a basic right that should have been included 
> > at the start of the project.
> > Designed in, rather than bolted on later after enough people complain.
> > That being said, not even apple, which for some reason is held up as the accessibility champion did this, so 
> > no company is perfect. Not even linux did this, though they were fairly fast at implementing accessibility 
> > for the text console, even if getting it going with a hardware synth was a pita.
> > Thanks
> > Kendell clark
> >
> >
> > On 09/23/2015 06:35 AM, Dennis Westphal wrote:
> > > Well that is  real miss step in my opinion that the Ubuntu Developers didnt include accessibility from the 
> > > start of the project. However it still is in the early stages thats why I wanted to know if it would be 
> > > possible to get orca running and make Ubuntu Phone usible for usable for us.
> > >
> > > Von meinem iPhone gesendet
> > >
> > > > Am 23.09.2015 um 12:08 schrieb kendell clark <coffeekingms gmail com>:
> > > >
> > > > hi
> > > > Don't take me too seriously when I get like this. I'm a little bitter
> > > > when it comes to us being beneath notice. I've lived in the windows
> > > > culture for so long despite me having switched to linux 4 years ago.
> > > > Blind agencies extatically point out the advantages of whatever
> > > > platform gives them the most kickbacks, perks and endorcements, while
> > > > conveniently ignoring the other options. Companies exploit us for
> > > > profit, and make a killing at it. I watch my fellow blind people
> > > > growing up used to being gouged for basic rights people without
> > > > disabilities take for granted. Thank god for linux, and joanie, rob,
> > > > luke, everyone who make linux usable by the blind Thanks Kendell
> > > > clark
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On 09/23/2015 04:41 AM, kendell clark wrote:
> > > > > hi
> > > > > I hate to burst your bubble, but afaik ubuntu is doing zero to make
> > > > > their phone platform accessible. Android or IOS are really your only
> > > > > options. Sad, but true as far as I know. This platform could be
> > > > > accessible, but it takes the developers putting time and effort into
> > > > > it, and as we all know, that's hard to get someone who doesn't
> > > > > depend on accessibility tech to understand. What? Blind people? Huh?
> > > > > I don't understand. I'm not an IOS person, mostly because I refuse
> > > > > to buy into the apple culture, and also because I can't afford the
> > > > > vast majority of apple hardware. I've seen what apple fans are like
> > > > > and I don't really want to be caught up in that. Android fans can be
> > > > > just as fanatical I suppose, but I've never had an android phone for more than a few days.
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Kendell clark
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 09/23/2015 04:27 AM, Dennis Westphal wrote:
> > > > > > iOS is in my opinion the most accessible plattform for mobile
> > > > > > devices. However Id love to use orca and Linux in general on a
> > > > > > mobile Phone or Tablet as well. I myself dont really like Android.
> > > > > > However I could really get behind using Ubuntu Phone and that way
> > > > > > using Linux exclusively
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Von meinem iPhone gesendet
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Am 23.09.2015 um 11:22 schrieb Vincenzo Rubano <vincenzo rubano studio unibo it>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  From what I know, we’re really far from getting Orca running with
> > > > > > > them. If I remember correctly, the problem should be that the a11y
> > > > > > > infrastructure is not ready at all for handling touch screen
> > > > > > > events…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you want to get an accessible touch screen device I would
> > > > > > > recommend going with an iDevice. Sure, there’s some accessibility
> > > > > > > support in Android devices as well, but I don’t think that it is
> > > > > > > as good as the support that iOS provides… And this is my personal
> > > > > > > opinion after having played a bit with both platforms and I do not
> > > > > > > intend to open up a flame…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Vincenzo.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Il giorno 23 set 2015, alle ore 09:31, Milton <milton duurzaamdigitaal org> ha scritto:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Me too would like to have such phone.
> > > > > > > > Milton
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Op 23-09-15 om 09:15 schreef Dennis Westphal:
> > > > > > > > > Hi guys,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I just was wondering if there is any intension to integrate orca in Ubuntu phone. Or if it is even possible.
> > > > > > > > > If it would be possible I'd like to get my hands on one of them.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > orca-list mailing list
> > > > > > orca-list gnome org
> > > > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > > > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > > > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > > > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > > > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > > > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list gnome org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

--
John Heim
john johnheim com