Re: [orca-list] GUI Redesign or clearup and modernization

[Josh K <joshknnd1982 gmail com>]

i think cannonical and arch have some of the best documentation out 
there. for newbies i'd go with cannonical ubuntu .

follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982

On 9/2/2015 12:38 PM, Al Sten-Clanton wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I get frustrated enough myself when somebody seems unwilling to read a 
> relevant documentation, if that documentation is actually helpful. 
> Having found my Linux road often rocky, in some part because I 
> couldn't understand the documentation or because it didn't say much, I 
> retain sympathy for the new user who finds Linux somewhat like bashing 
> into a brick wall where an open door should be.  Yes, I know that docs 
> come from volunteers, but if they don't work then it doesn't matter 
> much. Not that I've necessarily found documents on proprietary 
> software better, but some of those folks provide phone support that 
> can make up for it.
>
> And yes, there is some really good documentation for Linux, mostly 
> books, in my experience.  If we can point new folks to that stuff, and 
> if it isn't outdated, then it's more reasonable to be annoyed if they 
> don't give it a shot.
>
> Al
>
> On 09/02/2015 11:48 AM, kendell clark wrote:
> > **warning** Minor rant ahead
> > hi
> > I'm going to disagree here. Linux, like many things, requires you to
> > "learn" it. Windows was not self obvious when you first picked it up,
> > neither was whatever screen reader you use in it, jaws, nvda, etc. You
> > had to read the docs. If you're too good to read a simple help file,
> > then I really don't know what to tell you. Claiming linux is too hard
> > when you won't even try isn't a fault of linux, it's yours for not
> > trying. This isn't meant towards tony, but I'm getting disgusted with
> > this attitude so many blind people in particular have. If it won't think
> > for me, work automagically, and make my friggin coffee, then it's too
> > hard and I won't use it.
> > Thanks
> > Kendell clark
> >
> >
> > On 9/2/2015 6:15 AM, Tony Baechler wrote:
> > > On 9/1/2015 10:24 AM, B. Henry wrote:
> > > > Well, it's not unreasonalble to ask users to read a bit of
> > > > documentation to learn a keystroke or two when trying a new desktop,
> > > > but unless I'm missing
> > > > something folks like myself who use a window manager such as fluxbox
> > > > and fill in accessibility gaps with custom scripts would be left out
> > > > in the cold if
> > > > an orca prefs window was done away with.
> > >
> > > I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.  I think that in this case, it is
> > > unreasonable to expect people to be required to read documentation in
> > > order to figure out how to set their Orca prefs. That attitude in
> > > general is why so many people, both blind and sighted, either are put
> > > off by Linux, won't try it in the first place or give up without ever
> > > installing it and giving it a fair chance.  I don't have a problem
> > > expecting people to read a basic accessibility guide and I agree that
> > > once people have learned the basics that they should be expected to
> > > read the docs, but expecting them to read the docs before they even
> > > get started is asking too much.  Other than your first statement, I
> > > agree with what I think you're trying to say.  I think you're agreeing
> > > with my previous post on the subject which is that regardless of what
> > > desktop or window manager, there needs to be a universal keystroke to
> > > access the Orca prefs.  I don't think people should have to read the
> > > docs to find it, however.
> > >
> > > What would be good is for Orca to open the prefs window automatically
> > > when it's started from a live environment so people don't have to hunt
> > > around to find them.  Maybe could a command line switch like --prefs
> > > be added for this?  I thought there was already such a switch, but I
> > > didn't see it when reading "orca --help" on my Ubuntu MATE 15.04 
> > > system.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > orca-list mailing list
> > > orca-list gnome org
> > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> > Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> > GNOME Universal Access guide:
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list gnome org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
> Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
> GNOME Universal Access guide: 
> https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org