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Re: [orca-list] Emacs editor

On Monday, 26 October 2015,  2:55 pm +0100, Peter Vágner <pvdeejay gmail com> wrote:


Hello,

Most likelly this is now going slightly off topic however I did not have an
opportunity to get thus far with emacs and its accessibility so generally I
am curious. If you find this iritating just stop me and I will listen.

As I am understanding this is that emacspeak is building on emacs and adds
ability to do various other things that may even have nothing to do with
emacs e.g. reading rss feeds, posting to twitter, listening to music and
even some other crazy things which in some way or another might be usefull
to assistive technologies users.


Or that already exist in fuller, simpler, more robust and more standard implementations within the emacs 
ecosystem.


At the other hand you are saying that speechd-el just allows emacs to remain
emacs without additional bloatware.



right. So you have access to the emacs ecosystem.


Emacs displays various types of content in so called buffers. As I imagine
it there are some emacs specific buffers that display logs, messages etc.
Depending what's shown in such a buffer, there are emacs modes. but the
first most obvious thing appears to be that sighted people use different
modes for different tasks and when viewing different file types. This most
likelly adds different style of displaying text, does syntaks highlighting


Modes also change the functionality, so, for example, in org-mode, there's a keystroke for changing a list 
item into "tod" or "done". And org-mode also has navigation among list items in a tree.


and similar. Is there something usefull to you while using speechd-el or
emacsspeak on this architecture?


Yes. the information spoken is aware of whatever it is that emacs thinks is special about it. So, it's not 
just text, it's, to stick with org-mode from above, a list item with a todo status or some other semantically 
meaningful tag.


There are various 3rd party libraries and other apps for emacs. Do usually
speechd-el and emacspeak need to be aware of these things or does it just
work seamlesly?


My experience was that emacspeak needed to be made aware to have full functionality. (Sometimes things worked 
pretty well, but it was a crap shoot.) More recent emacspeak users will want to chime in.

Speechd-el, so far, I've seen no issues with trying out new packages, modes, etc.


I know that I can run almost any GTk3 app on gnome and it is expected to be
mostly accessible. Can this also said about emacs and its additions?


See above.



It's time to see Alex's tutorial, perhaps some of these things are already
answered there.

Thank you all

Greetings

Peter

On 26.10.2015 at 14:07 Will Estes wrote:

It's been several years since I dropped emacspeak. And frankly, it's a relief. No more pointless seeing 
eye dog jokes in the manual. I don't even need to read the manual for speechd-el--I just read the manuals 
for the emacs packages I'm learning. No more waiting for emacspeak to "support" new things in emacs. They 
just work because speechd-el just lets emacs be emacs. (vi/m fans generally thing that's not a good thing, 
but then they're using vi/m, and that's just a different use case.)

speechd-el is simpler and smaller. It enables emacs-centric speech output and then gets out of the way.

Emacspeak wants to change how you do everything, whether or not you want that.

On Monday, 26 October 2015,  8:00 am -0500, Christopher Chaltain <chaltain gmail com> wrote:


I haven't tried speechd-el yet, but I've been an Emacspeak user for almost
20 years. I can't compare the two, since I only have experience with
Emacspeak.

I do know the following though:

It isn't true that all of the Emacspeak development is just on adding
Emacspeak specific functionality that isn't needed. I'm not saying there
aren't reason to use speechd-el over Emacspeak, and I'm sure there are some
grains of truth to a statement like this, but it's so generic and using so
many superlatives, it's almost certainly not true and stated from a
philosophical position rather than a pragmatic one. I'd ask for more
specific details before putting any stock in statements like this.

I never found the build process for Emacspeak to be fragile or opaque. It's
no different than compiling any other source code using a make file.

Emacspeak generally speaks what you need to hear while working with Emacs. I
virtually never need to use Emacspeak specific key strokes, but they're nice
to have when I want to drill down for more specific information or get it
more efficiently.


On 10/26/2015 07:43 AM, Will Estes wrote:

All the active development on emacspeak is on adding functionality that is emacspeak specific and 
generally not needed. It's also, often, things that would be better handled outside of the "screen 
reading" component. When I last used emacspeak, I found its build process fragile and opaque.

speechd-el, on the other hand, simply lets emacs be emacs -- just with speech output. So you're not 
remembering additional screen reader specific commands other than the basics to make speech output the 
way you ened it.

There is a good tutorial inside emacs itself. speechd-el explains how to get it up and running inside 
emacs -- which you could do outside of emacs using another editor if you'd rather. Although the trick 
about using emacs in non-windowing mode mentioned on the list earlier is workable, certainly as a 
starting point.

On Monday, 26 October 2015,  1:34 pm +0100, Peter Vágner <pvdeejay gmail com> wrote:


Hello,

I think emacs is really powerfull editor.

Can some of you knowing it better either give a few words on why you prefer
speechd-el over emacspeak or the other way round?
It appears emacspeak is more active developed than speechd-el.

Also is there a howto for beginers and noobs looking at learning this?

Greetings

Peter

On 26.10.2015 at 09:16 Alex ARNAUD wrote:

On 25/10/2015 22:48, Mike Dupont wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacspeak check out emacspeak it is
supposed to be very good and also allows for access to other things.

There are also speechd-el. You can find information here :
http://devel.freebsoft.org/speechd-el

I use this line in my bashrc to make Emacs in CLI automatically :
alias emacs='emacs -nw'

Best regards,
Alex.
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_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org

-- 
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Orca wiki: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Orca
Orca documentation: https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/
GNOME Universal Access guide: https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/a11y.html
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org


-- 
Will Estes
westes575 gmail com
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