Re: [orca-list] Thoughts on the new table cell/row reading options?

[kendell clark <coffeekingms gmail com>]

hi
My personal opinion would be that a table is a table. Whether it's a
spreadsheet table, a website table, or a file manager table, it's a
table. Different tables might  need special code to deal with them but
as far as orca's concerned, it's a table. If you start adding options
for every conceivable type of table someone's invariably going to say
why can't we just have one option for all tables? Again, just my
opinion.Same for lists. This was removed a while back, but can, at some
point, orca announce lists? Right now I don't think it says anything.
There would also need to be some kind of heuristic to determine whether
a list has the amount of options it's reporting. Different subject, but
I just thought I'd bring it up while I was thinking about it. Most of
the items in gnome's settings hide options if you can't use them, but
those options are still  there, so gnome reports those numbers to
at-spi. I'm not sure if this is something orca can solve though.

Thanks
Kendell clark


On 11/24/2015 11:24 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> With respect to layout tables, the browser vendors decide how/what to
> expose. Gecko exposes them as tables, but adds an object attribute for
> layout tables. WebKit doesn't expose layout tables as tables. In
> addition, if the web author marks a table with a role of
> presentation/none, then browser vendors are expected to not expose those
> to ATs as tables. So even if I add an option to toggle on layout tables,
> it doesn't mean it will magically work.
>
> But getting back to the topic at hand: I am of the opinion that a
> static, data-like web table is the same sort of table as a Writer
> document table. And if, hypothetically, a layout table were to be
> exposed as a table, it would fall into this group.
>
> The question is: Do GUI tables which are not spreadsheets get treated as
> Writer/Web document tables? Or do GUI tables which are not spreadsheets
> form a third category? (Some examples would be multi-column file
> browsers, email message lists, any GtkTreeView, etc.)
>
> --joanie
>
>
> On 11/24/2015 11:45 PM, kendell clark wrote:
> > hi
> > What do we do about layout tables? These most often come up in webpages
> > and don't really serve any purpose other than to make the website look
> > good. While I don't use windows, NVDA is supposed to have an option to
> > either speak these or not. What does orca currently do with them and
> > should we add the ability to disable them? The main problem I see with
> > this is, is there a definitive way to know if a table is a layout table
> > or is it a matter of playing catch up as website designers fail to
> > consider screen reader users and make funky websites?
> > Thanks
> > Kendell clark
> >
> >
> > On 11/24/2015 10:30 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > > Hey all.
> > >
> > > While working on separating table cell/row reading so spreadsheet could
> > > be configured independently from other tables, some questions came up
> > > and I need your input.
> > >
> > > 1. Do you need just 2 settings (spreadsheet tables vs everything else)?
> > >    Or do you need 3 (gui tables, document tables, and spreadsheets)?
> > >    These, btw, would be the permanent settings with GUI check boxes.
> > >
> > > 2. Right now we have Orca + F11 which toggles the one and only table
> > >    setting on the fly. Given the introduction of the new settings:
> > >
> > > 2a. Do we still need the ability to toggle on the fly, or is the main
> > >     use case for toggle the fact that you only had one table setting?
> > >
> > > 2b. If we do indeed still need the ability to toggle on the fly, do we
> > >     need just the one, existing toggle (which presumably would toggle
> > >     based on the active table)? Or do we need one keybinding per table
> > >     cell/row option?
> > >
> > > Please let me know what you think. Thanks!
> > > --joanie
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