Re: [orca-list] The use case(s) for "frozen" flat review?

[Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs igalia com>]

Hey Kendell.

Thanks for your reply! From it, I have follow-up questions:

1. Are you just staring at the screen? In other words, you get into flat
   review, you move to the widget of interest, and you take your hands
   off the keyboard waiting for that widget to reach a certain point?
   Or are you instead:

2. Using flat review to move around on the screen, but occasionally you
   wish to look to see if the widget has changed state/value? Or
   something else?

Also: Is there always just a single widget of interest? If so, could
you set a temporary bookmark so that you could jump there on occasion?

Also: Please describe a very concrete and real example (complete with
application and task being attempted) that you yourself have actually
done (or tried to do but failed as a result of there not being
"frozen" flat review -- or whatever the missing feature is).

That last statement might sound a tad snarky. If so, please know that
it's not meant that way at all. I really want to understand the
problem(s) in order to solve them.

Take care.
--joanie


On 03/02/2015 08:30 PM, kendell clark wrote:
> hi My suggestion would be to keep flat review largely as it is now,
> IE picture of what is in the window at the moment it is activated,
> with the following exceptions. Progress, spinners, and item counts.
> I'd also like to see, but don't have any idea how to do it without
> causing all sorts of guessing code to be implemented in orca, to
> periodically pole the window for any changed labels and/or
> controlls. This is going off the topic, but I see a problem with,
> I"m not at all sure if this is at-spi or orca, but sometimes when a
> window such as a dialog opens, orca cannot focus on anything but
> the window or frame's outer object, that is, teh frame itself, and
> cannot see the text in taht object until orca is restarted. I'm not
> sure what to do with flat review. Flat review is really, really
> useful, abnd I don't think it should go away. Is it possible to
> make exceptions to the "static" state flat review uses, for example
> what I listed above, without having to resort to lots of
> potentially costly calls to at-spi to query the app for accessible
> states, names change events, and all sorts of things that are over
> my head, and might not even be implemented properly in what ever
> app you're reviewing? Thanks Kendell clark
>
>
> Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> > Hey all.
>
> > Periodically someone raises the issue that Orca fails to
> > preserve the flat review context when the content of the stuff
> > being reviewed changes. This is not something I can just wave a
> > magic wand and fix without knowing what the actual use cases are.
> > It would be helpful if you could share them with me. But first,
> > I'd ask you to consider the following:
>
> > * The purpose of flat review is to show you what is on screen in 
> > the current window. Like a photo. In other words, what sighted 
> > users see. If we freeze flat review, making some of you very
> > happy, and the stuff you are reviewing scrolls off the screen
> > (e.g. in a chat window after more content comes in), I'd bet
> > money that someone else comes along and calls your feature a bug
> > because Orca was lying to them about what was showing.
>
> > * One of the features of flat review is to make it possible to 
> > synthesize mouse clicks. If the flat review context is frozen,
> > but the screen contents change, when you click one of the
> > following can happen: You click on some totally different object
> > -- the one that has since moved into view at the coordinates in
> > question -- which might have undesirable consequences if it's a
> > widget or link you didn't know was there. Alternatively, Orca
> > could try to activate the accessible object associated with the
> > flat review context. But if that accessible is associated with a
> > widget that no longer exists, there's a chance Orca will crash
> > your app.
>
> > Keeping the above in mind, please explain to me what it is you
> > wish to accomplish with a "frozen" flat review so that we can try
> > to find a way to address your needs without causing the problems 
> > described above. Maybe flat review as it was envisioned isn't
> > what anyone wants at all. Or maybe what you want is a very valid
> > and cool feature that ain't flat review, but something entirely 
> > different which would exist in addition to flat review. I'd love
> > to know which it is. <smiles>
>
> > Thanks! --joanie _______________________________________________
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> > http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The
> > manual is at 
> > http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
>
> >
>
> The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find
> > out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
>
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> is at
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The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out
> how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp