Re: [orca-list] the speakupmodified dists from speakupmodified.org
- From: "mike" <mmstopka28 gmail com>
- To: <Alex Midence gmail com>, "'herzog'" <herzog frontiernet net>
- Cc: robhill es co nz, 'orca-list' <orca-list gnome org>
- Subject: Re: [orca-list] the speakupmodified dists from speakupmodified.org
- Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 22:59:09 -0500
I run debian sid and have had the same box running threw two releases. I
started with binux but it just didn't meat what i needed or wanted. But i
guess to each their own.
-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list-bounces gnome org [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On
Behalf Of Alex Midence
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 10:44 PM
To: herzog
Cc: robhill es co nz; 'orca-list'
Subject: Re: [orca-list] the speakupmodified dists from speakupmodified.org
The one word answer to your question is convenience. Prior versions of
Ubuntu were not as accessible out of the box especially before Oneiric. You
had to know what you were doing to get them to work right. Vinux has all
the hard a11y stuff set up for you. It depends on what you want out of your
Linux distro. Just like any other flavor of Linux, I suppose. As for
updating, I was always able to update my Vinux 3.0 based on Lucid without
too much fuss once I figured out that everything but the kernel could be
updated OK and that I needed to disable testing ppa's. Once Vinux 3.2 came
along based on Natty, which had a 2.6.38 kernel in it, I didn't even have to
worry about the kernel but could update as normal without a hitch. All I
had ot do was remove and reinstall speechd-up and I was back in business.
I don't use Vinux currently but, if I go back to it it will be so that I can
have a Linux distribution that has console speech and Gui speech using Pulse
Audio. I also want Emacspeak to work well in it with Pulse. And, I want
the very latest Orca as an installation candidate. I will get none of those
things in Ubuntu proper for some time if ever without considerable tweaking
on my part. Tweaking for which I don't always have the time or patience
working full time and with a wife and two small children with night time
college classes on top of that. So, I guess I circle right back to where I
started--Convenience.
Alex M
On 7/9/2012 6:05 PM, herzog wrote:
I cannot understand why everyone doesn't use Ubuntu 12.04 which uses
orca, and updates easily,
Vinux Starts with Ubuntu as a base, but customizes it for the total
blind.
Why do so many want to live life the old pioneer way!
Wil Herzog
On 07/09/2012 04:19 PM, robhill es co nz wrote:
Hello Alex and list,
Actually, no. The GUI is overwhelmingly the norm in the
sighted
world, so VI users think that is the only way of doing
things- or
perhaps they learned the GUI whilst they still had sight.
But text,
e.g. in the form of emacs, is far more suited to blind use.
It's linearity fits with
speech and Braille so much better than the 2D nature of the
GUI. I
suggest a VI novice who had been exposed to neither the GUI
nor text
interfaces would find the learning curve of each about the
same.
Rob
Alex Midence writes:
> Disagree all you like. The facts speek for themselves.
Ask around and find
> out how many people use Emacs or Emacspeak. It's
depressingly few. Compare
> that to how many use Gedit and Libre Office. A simple
poll on any list you
> like should suffice to give you an idea. I'm an avid
Emacsoid myself and I
> wish it were otherwise. I've even gone so far as to
spend several hours of
> my time writing an introductory guide to it for novice
users of Linux in an
> effort to increase the user base somewhat. People just
seem to find it
> easier to master Libre Office and Gedit than they do
Emacs. Part of the
> reason is that unconventional interface you mentioned.
It introduces
> complexity and difficulty or the perception thereof.
The harder something
> is to master, the fewer people will want to master it.
Their need for the
> software has to be high enough to justify the extra time
and effort. If
> they find out there's something out there that does the
same thing but with
> less effort on their part, they're gone. The only thing
that will
> counteract this phenomenon is if they are required to
use it by some outside
> entity like their job or something like that.
>
> Alex M
> -----Original Message-----
> From: orca-list-bounces gnome org
[mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On
> Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:56 AM
> To: 'orca-list'
> Subject: Re: [orca-list] the speakupmodified dists from
speakupmodified.org
>
> I don't agree that the Emacs learning curve is so steep
it can only be
> mastered by a few. It doesn't use the the standard
conventions found in a
> lot of Windows and GUI applications, but that's true of
a lot of the
> applications embraced by the blind, especially on Linux.
To me, it just
> comes down to whether it's worth climbing that learning
curve, but that's
> true for all applications.
>
> On 09/07/12 08:07, Alex Midence wrote:
> > How would the GUI stuff interfere? Ubuntu comes with
all the gui
> > bells and whistles you could want and yet, it has a
talking installer.
> > And, the reason they don't make Xemacs the default is
that people
> > wouldn't be able to use it as easily as they can LIbre
Office or Open
> > Office. The learning curve for Emacs is too steep for
adoption by
> > more than a small specialized and commited user base.
For the types
> > that just want to get in there and get things done
coming at the
> > system cold, it's a major turnoff. That stuff has to
be included in
> > there. I don't think it's the GUI stuff. I think
it's more that it
> > just is not a priority for a lot of distributions or
that it just
> > doesn't get that much attention. Besides, the GUI
stuff isn't a
> > factor in Speakup modified installations with software
speech.
> > There's absolutely no GUI on a Debian Business card
iso. It's a real
> slimmed down bit of Linux and it is pure text.
> >
> > Alex M
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jude DaShiell [mailto:jdashiel shellworld net]
> > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 2:51 AM
> > To: Alex Midence
> > Cc: Thomas Ward; orca-list
> > Subject: Re: [orca-list] the speakupmodified dists
from
> > speakupmodified.org
> >
> > It's all the G.U.I. stuff that gets put on systems.
The openoffice
> > suite with all of its dependencies is one piece that
can be stripped
> > from initial distribution and added in later.
Probably xemacs could
> > replace openoffice at a huge space savings too.
Probably not so many
> > dependencies and most of the functionality of
openoffice will be there
> > too. On Sun, 8 Jul 2012, Alex Midence wrote:
> >
> >> You are absolutely right. I'd forgotten about the
talking Arch
> >> option. To me, Debian's example is the most
impressive. The
> >> business card sized iso which is like 30 or 40 megs
or something like
> >> that has software speech built in to it. goes to
show you that it
> >> doesn't take up much space on an image and that it's
most likely
> >> something else that prevents more distributions from
making this option
> available.
> >>
> >> Alex M
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/8/2012 4:14 PM, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> >>> Add archlinux to that list please. There's a
talkingarch version
> >>> that had espeak added to it. On Sun, 8 Jul 2012,
Alex Midence wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The only distros I know of that have speakup with
software speech
> >>>> functionality out of the box are Debian and grml.
> >>>>
> >>>> Alex M
> >>>>
> >>>> On 7/8/2012 4:24 AM, Thomas Ward wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Mattias,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To the best of my memory yes. The distributions
from the Speakup
> >>>>> Modified website are only configured for hardware
synths. I'm not
> >>>>> aware of any speakup modified distributions that
use ESpeakup or
> >>>>> something like that for software TTS. :D
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 7/7/12, mattias <mj mjw se> <mailto:mj mjw se>
wrote:
> >>>>>> will them only work with hardware tts?
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> orca-list mailing list
> >>>>> orca-list gnome org
> >>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> >>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more
information on Orca.
> >>>>> The manual is at
> >>>>>
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.
> >>>>> html The FAQ is at
> >>>>>
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> >>>>> Log bugs and feature requests at
http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find
> >>>>> out how to help at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> orca-list mailing list
> >>>> orca-list gnome org
> >>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> >>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more
information on Orca.
> >>>> The manual is at
> >>>>
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.ht
> >>>> ml The FAQ is at
> >>>> http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> >>>> Log bugs and feature requests at
http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out
> >>>> how to help at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Windows Pants: made entirely of patches on patches
each with a
> >>> picture of a Microsoft Vacuum Cleaner; a computer
mouse, or a dollar
> > sign.
> >>>
> >>> Jude <jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net>
> >>> <http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html>
<http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Windows Pants: made entirely of patches on patches
each with a picture
> > of a Microsoft Vacuum Cleaner; a computer mouse, or a
dollar sign.
> >
> > Jude <jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net>
> > <http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html>
<http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > orca-list mailing list
> > orca-list gnome org
> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information
on Orca.
> > The manual is at
> >
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> > The FAQ is at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> > Log bugs and feature requests at
http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out
> > how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
> >
>
>
> --
> Christopher (CJ)
> chaltain at Gmail
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> orca-list mailing list
> orca-list gnome org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on
Orca.
> The manual is at
>
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
> The FAQ is at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
> Log bugs and feature requests at
http://bugzilla.gnome.org
> Find out how to help at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
orca-list mailing list
orca-list gnome org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on
Orca.
The manual is at
http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html
The FAQ is at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Find out how to help at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp
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